Old
  (#61)
OneIron
On the snap, Vinny!
OneIron has a reputation beyond reputeOneIron has a reputation beyond reputeOneIron has a reputation beyond reputeOneIron has a reputation beyond reputeOneIron has a reputation beyond reputeOneIron has a reputation beyond reputeOneIron has a reputation beyond reputeOneIron has a reputation beyond reputeOneIron has a reputation beyond reputeOneIron has a reputation beyond reputeOneIron has a reputation beyond repute
 
OneIron's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 5,904
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Blog Entries: 3
Join Date: Jan 2007
   
08-03-2014, 07:21 AM

We baby boomers understood the folly of war back in the 60's. Every evening, we were treated to macabre images of young soldiers coming home in body bags and the mounting casualty counts. We all understood that Vietnam was a war that was unjustified and would never be won. And we were right.

My best friend was killed in '68 in Vietnam. A monumental waste of a young human life. He would never see the age of 20. The lucky ones who made it home were blamed for the war.

But yet, many made huge profits on the war. There's a special place in hell for these people.

I believe in a strong military used solely for the defense of the United States. Stay out of the affairs of other countries, many of whom hate us. But if we're attacked, retaliate in the strongest manner possible including nuclear.

"Don't Tread On Me"


Life is simpler when you plow around the stump.
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#62)
jimmyg
Mook! What's a Mook?
jimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond repute
 
jimmyg's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 31,521
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2006
   
08-03-2014, 08:14 PM

Lies For Empire
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 08/03/2014 - 21:44

The world is no more safer than it was when the War on Terror began. Some of the Middle East’s most brutal dictators were removed from power, but radical jihadists have filled the vacuum of authority. Men and women are still coming home in caskets draped with Old Glory, or they come home mentally and physically debilitated. And for what exactly?

If Smedley Butler was correct, and war is a racket, then there was another measure of success at work. And it sure wasn’t the promotion of universal democratic values. If empire can’t bring that, then there isn’t much of a point outside of domination. In other words, somebody benefits from imperium, and it’s not the average voter. Sooner or later the jig is up.
  
Reply With Quote
Gulf of Tonkin incident
Old
  (#63)
jimmyg
Mook! What's a Mook?
jimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond repute
 
jimmyg's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 31,521
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2006
   
Gulf of Tonkin incident - 08-05-2014, 07:31 AM

Why the Gulf of Tonkin and the Vietnam War Matter 50 Years Later (1/2)
Posted on August 2, 2014 by Lambert Strether

Today, August 2, is the 50th anniversary of the , and Jessica Desvarieux of the Real News Network interviews Daniel Ellsberg about his experiences of those days (and journalist Gareth Porter).

video:
Why The Gulf of Tonkin Matters 50 Years Later (1/2) from TheRealNews2 on Vimeo.

For those who came in late, Daniel Ellsberg was the Edward Snowden of his time (the 60s). And the Iraq War wasn’t the first war we went into where “the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy” (discussion here). Before Bush’s WMDs and Iraq, there were LBJ’s torpedoes in the Gulf of Tonkin and Vietnam.

You should listen to the whole thing, especially where Ellsberg contextualizes Flight MH17, but what amazes me, and I did not know, was that Ellsberg was present, physically, when the Gulf of Tonkin “facts” were “fixed” around the Vietnam policy. Note that there were two putative “incidents,” one on August 2 and one on August 4, and that August 4 provided the casus belli for the Johnson administration to go to war in Vietnam:

DESVARIEUX: Daniel–I just want to get Daniel into this conversation a little bit more, ’cause he was actually there on August 4.

Can you just give us your take? Tell us what happened.

ELLSBERG: Well, the way it came to me, my boss–the assistant secretary of defense for international security affairs, John McNaughton–with McNamara in his office on the morning of August 4, when I came into the office at 9 o’clock they were actually already planning the possible response to an attack that they expected because of indications that the commodore on the spot, he thought that he was being shadowed for a possible ambush. These were mistaken inferences that the commander was drawing. But in any case, they were already considering the possibility of an attack. At the time I came in, a little after 9 o’clock in the Pentagon, a courier rushed in, ran in from the communications office of the Department of Defense with a flash cable saying that the commodore Herrick on the patrols in the South China Sea, which was then in the middle of the night, or roughly nine o’clock there, was under attack at that very moment, that there was a torpedo coming at him, he was taking evasive action. And in subsequent moments, more cables came in, running in, all very urgent, the fastest priority flash, saying two torpedoes, four torpedoes, eight torpedoes. He seemed to be awash in torpedoes as he was maneuvering his boat. In fact, eventually he had reported something over 20 torpedoes, which was larger than we estimated was in the entire arsenal of the North Vietnamese fleet. So that was a little strange right there. But in any case, it seemed a very desperate situation, the first time that a destroyer had been attacked like this since two days before, but that had been the first since Second World War. So a very [urgent (?)] situation. We were preparing to respond with air attacks, the first air attacks against North Vietnam.

But as Gareth has indicated, at about 1:30, while my boss was now over at the White House–or McNamara, actually, was over at the White House, and I think McNaughton was with him, conferring with the president on the exact nature of the retaliation, comes a very dramatic table from Commodore Herrick saying, hold everything, in effect, as Gareth has said. All the torpedo reports except the first one are now suspect and, it turned out, he said, were reports of an overeager sonar man who was mistaking the beat of the ship’s propeller against the wake as they took evasive action, circled in the water. That was being mistaken for incoming torpedoes.

Wowsers.

And there was other evidence for casting very much doubt on what had happened.

Now, I took it for granted that anything I was seeing was, of course, also available to the president and to McNamara. And it certainly was to McNamara. So I assumed that they were quite well aware that there was a good deal of uncertainty about what had happened. The commodore at the time, Herrick, did say that there was one torpedo, but one had to take that with a good deal of salt, because he had been just as certain about the next 20 torpedoes, and it really took him many years before, looking at the evidence, he finally acknowledged that he had been mistaken about the first one as well. But even on that night, we knew that what the president proceeded to say and what McNamara proceeded to say to the press in television interviews, that the attack was unequivocal, we knew that that was false, as many years later it turned out that the assertions by Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld that they had unequivocal evidence of WMDs, weapons of mass destruction, in Iraq were false and known to be false at the time, that the evidence was extremely equivocal at that time. And just like the Tonkin Gulf, it turned out there were no WMDs. The evidence was not just equivocal; it was mistaken. Well, that’s what happened on the Tonkin Gulf, as was increasingly clear within hours, to some extent, but certainly within days as new evidence came in, where the overwhelming evidence was that there had been no attack. But that did not stop the president and McNamara from going to Congress to get, essentially, a blank check for war, the Tonkin Gulf Resolution, which was, just like the Iraq Resolution, essentially a predated declaration of war given by the Congress to the president, in violation of the Constitution.

Now, before we go all “same as it ever was” over Gulf of Tonkin:Vietnam :: WMDs:Iraq, I should point out that not only did LBJ end up not running for a second term because of opposition to the war, he didn’t make jokes about the lies, either. Nor did the entire political class crack up when he did.

25 sec G Bush video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_tFKa2_YBQ
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#64)
CocoboloCowboy
Cowboys are my heros.
CocoboloCowboy has a reputation beyond reputeCocoboloCowboy has a reputation beyond reputeCocoboloCowboy has a reputation beyond reputeCocoboloCowboy has a reputation beyond reputeCocoboloCowboy has a reputation beyond reputeCocoboloCowboy has a reputation beyond reputeCocoboloCowboy has a reputation beyond reputeCocoboloCowboy has a reputation beyond reputeCocoboloCowboy has a reputation beyond reputeCocoboloCowboy has a reputation beyond reputeCocoboloCowboy has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 27,214
vCash: 1538
iTrader: 91 / 100%
Join Date: Jul 2007
   
08-05-2014, 07:54 AM

War has been going on since the beginning of time, one only need open a copy of the Old Testament, to see all the writing about war, struggle for power, the killing that I am sure predates the old testament, and has been going on before people could write on wall with blood from killed animals.

Worrying about War is like worrying about if the Sun will rise tomorrow, or we will ever see a Full Moon again.

IMHO there are bigger fish for each of use to fry, that effect our live more, than worrying about something we have zero control over.

JMHO.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#65)
overlord
AzB Silver Member
overlord has a reputation beyond reputeoverlord has a reputation beyond reputeoverlord has a reputation beyond reputeoverlord has a reputation beyond reputeoverlord has a reputation beyond reputeoverlord has a reputation beyond reputeoverlord has a reputation beyond reputeoverlord has a reputation beyond reputeoverlord has a reputation beyond reputeoverlord has a reputation beyond reputeoverlord has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 21,114
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Dec 2011
   
08-05-2014, 08:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyg View Post
Lies For Empire
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 08/03/2014 - 21:44

The world is no more safer than it was when the War on Terror began. Some of the Middle East’s most brutal dictators were removed from power, but radical jihadists have filled the vacuum of authority. Men and women are still coming home in caskets draped with Old Glory, or they come home mentally and physically debilitated. And for what exactly?

If Smedley Butler was correct, and war is a racket, then there was another measure of success at work. And it sure wasn’t the promotion of universal democratic values. If empire can’t bring that, then there isn’t much of a point outside of domination. In other words, somebody benefits from imperium, and it’s not the average voter. Sooner or later the jig is up.
I have never been a believer in the WOT I though we were chastising AQ . I don't like war against a tactic. We have to maintain a strong military but I think we should try to utilize it more judiciously.

The Vietnam war after Korea were we ceded strategic primacy to the Chicoms was a fool's errand. Most wars don't solve the problems that the wars were fought for in the first place.

The dominance of Western Civilization was predicated on the competition created by war and all that worked very well until the disaster of WW 1.

Some historians think that the west never recovered from this holocaust. The trouble with war is like Winston Churchill said " war is the ultimate stimulant "

I think the Marines should be sent to Central America right now and deal with these violent thugs that are causing all the mayhem down there. If we were Klingons we could end war but we are human.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#66)
chefjeff
No sides, only players
chefjeff has a reputation beyond reputechefjeff has a reputation beyond reputechefjeff has a reputation beyond reputechefjeff has a reputation beyond reputechefjeff has a reputation beyond reputechefjeff has a reputation beyond reputechefjeff has a reputation beyond reputechefjeff has a reputation beyond reputechefjeff has a reputation beyond reputechefjeff has a reputation beyond reputechefjeff has a reputation beyond repute
 
chefjeff's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 52,834
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
   
08-05-2014, 09:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by overlord View Post
(snip) If we were Klingons we could end war but we are human.
I've heard a lot of stupid excuses for murder, but that might top the list.

Jeff Livingston
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#67)
bsmutz
Fearlessly Happy
bsmutz has a reputation beyond reputebsmutz has a reputation beyond reputebsmutz has a reputation beyond reputebsmutz has a reputation beyond reputebsmutz has a reputation beyond reputebsmutz has a reputation beyond reputebsmutz has a reputation beyond reputebsmutz has a reputation beyond reputebsmutz has a reputation beyond reputebsmutz has a reputation beyond reputebsmutz has a reputation beyond repute
 
bsmutz's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,165
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kelso, WA
   
08-05-2014, 12:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chefjeff View Post
I've heard a lot of stupid excuses for murder, but that might top the list.

Jeff Livingston
Don't forget that violence is human nature and there's nothing we can do to stop it, except kill everyone else. Then someone can truly live in peace. I guess, maybe, you could have one person per continent and have peace. Naw, the last few would hunt each other down. It's inevitable, this killing and war. Pass the ammo!


My reality does not equal your reality, but my reality is neither > nor < your reality.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#68)
jimmyg
Mook! What's a Mook?
jimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond repute
 
jimmyg's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 31,521
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2006
   
08-09-2014, 06:31 AM

“Hell, those dumb, stupid sailors were just shooting at flying fish!”

- U.S. President Lyndon Johnson commenting on the Gulf of Tonkin incident
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#69)
chefjeff
No sides, only players
chefjeff has a reputation beyond reputechefjeff has a reputation beyond reputechefjeff has a reputation beyond reputechefjeff has a reputation beyond reputechefjeff has a reputation beyond reputechefjeff has a reputation beyond reputechefjeff has a reputation beyond reputechefjeff has a reputation beyond reputechefjeff has a reputation beyond reputechefjeff has a reputation beyond reputechefjeff has a reputation beyond repute
 
chefjeff's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 52,834
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
   
08-09-2014, 11:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyg View Post
“Hell, those dumb, stupid sailors were just shooting at flying fish!”

- U.S. President Lyndon Johnson commenting on the Gulf of Tonkin incident
That's worth 60,000 Americans dying.

Be sure to vote or shut up.


Jeff Livingston
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#70)
jimmyg
Mook! What's a Mook?
jimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond repute
 
jimmyg's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 31,521
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2006
   
08-29-2014, 05:51 AM

He Supports All The Troops

He supports all the troops,
He’s glad to see them go,
He fills them with patriotic fervor,
And sets their hearts aglow.

He conjures up a marching band,
He makes them all feel proud,
He tells them to take a stand,
And say the pledge aloud.

He tells them of the enemies,
Those filthy, evil foes,
Those foreign devils must be stopped,
And so his story goes.

Then they go in their prime,
To kill and fight and die,
Cut down before their time,
While loved ones wonder why.

His tales of glory,
Are just a story,
From forth his fetid breath,
They lead to sorrow,
And no tomorrow,
Just endless, dreaded death.
  
Reply With Quote
The lunacy of it all....
Old
  (#71)
jimmyg
Mook! What's a Mook?
jimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond repute
 
jimmyg's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 31,521
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2006
   
The lunacy of it all.... - 09-25-2014, 07:20 AM

Moderate Rebel Application Form:


New Yorker columnist Andy Borowitz devised the perfect Moderate Syrian Rebel Application Form.

To eliminate potential mistakes by all involved, there are only six questions on the application:

1. As a Syrian rebel, I think the word or phrase that best describes me is:

A) Moderate
B) Very moderate
C) Crazy moderate
D) Other

2. I became a Syrian rebel because I believe in:

A) Truth
B) Justice
C) The American Way
D) Creating an Islamic caliphate

3. If I were given a highly lethal automatic weapon by the United States, I would:

A) Only kill exactly the people that the United States wanted me to kill
B) Try to kill the right people, with the caveat that I have never used an automatic weapon before
C) Kill people only after submitting them to a rigorous vetting process
D) Immediately let the weapon fall into the wrong hands

4. I have previously received weapons from:

A) Al Qaeda
B) The Taliban
C) North Korea
D) I did not receive weapons from any of them because after they vetted me I was deemed way too moderate

5. I consider ISIS:

A) An existential threat to Iraq
B) An existential threat to Syria
C) An existential threat to Iraq and Syria
D) The people who will pick up my American weapon after I drop it and run away

6. Complete the following sentence. “American weapons are…”

A) Always a good thing to randomly add to any international hot spot
B) Exactly what this raging civil war has been missing for the past three years
C) Best when used moderately
D) Super easy to resell online

Read more at http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogsp...slcpEwRGqpb.99
  
Reply With Quote
Operation Odysseus’ Butcher Shop
Old
  (#72)
jimmyg
Mook! What's a Mook?
jimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond repute
 
jimmyg's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 31,521
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2006
   
Operation Odysseus’ Butcher Shop - 10-07-2014, 07:57 AM

Operation Odysseus’ Butcher Shop
Posted on October 6, 2014 by DavidSwanson



The phrase “war myths” these days is generally taken to mean such nonsense as that war will make us safe, or civilians won’t be killed, or surgical strikes will kill more enemies than they produce, or prosperity and freedom will follow war-making, etc. But I wonder whether “war myths” shouldn’t be taken more literally, whether we don’t in fact have a bunch of warmakers believing that they are Odysseus.

Remember Odysseus, the great Greek hero who went on lots of thrilling adventures on his way home from Troy and kicked a bunch of interloping suitors of his lonely wife out of his house in Ithaca when he got home?

Well, Odysseus didn’t actually kick them out, did he? Do you remember what actually happened? Odysseus could have ordered them out upon his return. He could have announced his approach and had them gone before he arrived. Instead, he disguised himself and entered his house unannounced. He secretly hid all the weapons except those for himself and his son and loyal servants. He secretly blocked every door. The suitors were unarmed and trapped when Odysseus revealed who he was and started murdering them.

The suitors offered to more than repay him for what they had stolen from his house, to apologize, to try to make things right. Odysseus, who had a goddess making sure he succeeded in every detail, declined all offers and murdered every man but those his son said were loyal. He beheaded. He tortured. He dismembered. He cut off faces and cut out organs and fed bits of people to dogs. And then, seeing as how he was on such a glorious killing spree, he asked his wife’s head servant whether any of the servant women had been disrespectful or misbehaved in any way. Those who had were quickly identified, and Odysseus murdered them immediately.

And there was a cute reunion scene with his wife, and everyone lived happily ever after, right?

Well, actually, there’s a bit of the story we tend to overlook. Odysseus realized that the giant pile of corpses in his house had friends and relatives who would seek revenge exactly as barbarically as he had. So his goddess friend cast a spell of forgiveness on all of them, and by that means there was peace.

Now, in the world of the myth one might well wonder why Athena didn’t just cast that spell on Odysseus the day before, let the suitors repay him, and skip the blood bath. But in the world of reality, one must ask whether our masters of war believe Athena is going to help them too.

They revenge themselves with righteous brutality on various dictators who have lapsed in their loyalty or death squads that have lost their utility, and the blowback is predictable, predicted, and tragic. No goddess ever shows up to cast a spell of forgiveness on victims’ friends and family.

War supporters know there’s no goddess in their fight, but often they begin to imagine that the other side will find forgiveness by seeing the justness of the war against them — although I don’t believe there are any examples of this actually happening.

War propaganda maintains that the other side only speaks the language of violence, so violence will communicate to that other side our grievances, our suffering, our justifiable outrage, and our desire for peace. But of course, violence is not a language, not even when dressed up in Homer’s art. A language is a substance that can be thought in. Violence cannot embody thought, only fantasy.

The happy little war that turned Libya into hell three years ago was called Operation Odyssey Dawn.

There have been many admirable suggestions put forward to name Obama’s latest war:

Operation Enduring Confusion

Operation Rolling Blunder

Operation Iraqi Liberation

Operation We’re Indispensable – Guess What That Makes You

Operation Unchanging Hopelessness

But I think the appropriate tag for a mission based on the idea of special holy goodness and power, the idea that mass killing of civilians is justified by outrage at killing of civilians, and the notion that everyone will forgive it afterwards so it won’t just make matters worse, is Operation Odysseus’ Butcher Shop.
  
Reply With Quote
Someone's making a whole lot of $$$$$$.....
Old
  (#73)
jimmyg
Mook! What's a Mook?
jimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond repute
 
jimmyg's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 31,521
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2006
   
Someone's making a whole lot of $$$$$$..... - 10-14-2014, 08:43 AM

  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#74)
crosseyedjoe
Anywhere but here
crosseyedjoe has a reputation beyond reputecrosseyedjoe has a reputation beyond reputecrosseyedjoe has a reputation beyond reputecrosseyedjoe has a reputation beyond reputecrosseyedjoe has a reputation beyond reputecrosseyedjoe has a reputation beyond reputecrosseyedjoe has a reputation beyond reputecrosseyedjoe has a reputation beyond reputecrosseyedjoe has a reputation beyond reputecrosseyedjoe has a reputation beyond reputecrosseyedjoe has a reputation beyond repute
 
crosseyedjoe's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 6,693
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nebraska
   
10-14-2014, 09:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyg View Post
This only prove that there is no way that ISIS can be defeated without sending American ground troops. Spineless Obama, I tell you . . .

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/sen-graha...-here-at-home/


The art of crowd control, the presidential style.
Never underestimate the power of fallacy to change the world. -- Umberto Eco

If I'm a serial killer:
Murder Implement: Loaf of bread and Peanut-butter
Torture Implement: Water or milk in front of you while you're choking on peanut-butter sandwich

Last edited by crosseyedjoe; 10-14-2014 at 09:22 AM.
  
Reply With Quote
Making friends and influencing people.....
Old
  (#75)
jimmyg
Mook! What's a Mook?
jimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond reputejimmyg has a reputation beyond repute
 
jimmyg's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 31,521
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2006
   
Making friends and influencing people..... - 11-25-2014, 07:30 AM

Tuesday, November 25, 2014 12:19 AM

War on Terror: Drones Target 41 but Kill 1,147 Mostly Innocent men, Women, and Children

The US calls it a war on terror. In reality it's a war of terror. And for every innocent person killed, hundreds of friends and family members hold it against the US.

The Guardian reports 41 Men Targeted but 1,147 People Killed in US Drone Strikes.

New analysis of data conducted by human rights group Reprieve shared with the Guardian, raises questions about accuracy of intelligence guiding ‘precise’ strikes.

The drones came for Ayman Zawahiri on 13 January 2006, hovering over a village in Pakistan called Damadola. Ten months later, they came again for the man who would become al-Qaida’s leader, this time in Bajaur.

Eight years later, Zawahiri is still alive. Seventy-six children and 29 adults, according to reports after the two strikes, are not.

However many Americans know who Zawahiri is, far fewer are familiar with Qari Hussain. Drones first came for Hussain years before, on 29 January 2008. Then they came on 23 June 2009, 15 January 2010, 2 October 2010 and 7 October 2010. Finally, on 15 October 2010, Hellfire missiles fired from a Predator or Reaper drone killed Hussain, the Pakistani Taliban later confirmed. For the death of a man whom practically no American can name, the US killed 128 people, 13 of them children, none of whom it meant to harm.


The human-rights group Reprieve, indicates that even when operators target specific individuals – the most focused effort of what Barack Obama calls “targeted killing” – they kill vastly more people than their targets, often needing to strike multiple times. Attempts to kill 41 men resulted in the deaths of an estimated 1,147 people, as of 24 November.

Some 24 men specifically targeted in Pakistan resulted in the death of 874 people. All were reported in the press as “killed” on multiple occasions, meaning that numerous strikes were aimed at each of them. The vast majority of those strikes were unsuccessful. An estimated 142 children were killed in the course of pursuing those 24 men, only six of whom died in the course of drone strikes that killed their intended targets.

There is nothing precise about intelligence that results in the deaths of 28 unknown people, including women and children, for every ‘bad guy’ the US goes after,” said Reprieve’s Jennifer Gibson, who spearheaded the group’s study.

In Yemen, 17 named men were targeted multiple times. Strikes on them killed 273 people, at least seven of them children. At least four of the targets are still alive.

Available data for the 41 men targeted for drone strikes across both countries indicate that each of them was reported killed multiple times.

An analytically conservative Council on Foreign Relations tally assesses that 500 drone strikes outside of Iraq and Afghanistan have killed 3,674 people.

We don’t just fire a drone at somebody and think they’re a terrorist,” the secretary of state, John Kerry, said at a BBC forum in 2013.

“President Obama needs to be straight with the American people about the human cost of this programme. If even his government doesn’t know who is filling the body bags every time a strike goes wrong, his claims that this is a precise programme look like nonsense, and the risk that it is in fact making us less safe looks all too real,” Gibson said.

Why Do You Kill My Family?



Does US Drone Policy Make Any Sense?

We have not killed the 41 we are after, but we have made thousands, if not tens-of-thousands of new enemies in the process.


Does this make any sense?

You know the unfortunate answer. For those who want perpetual war, the policy is a blazing success.

Mike "Mish" Shedlock
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com

Read more at http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogsp...AA3ebRj1389.99
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 5 of 31 « First 345 6715 Last »

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.