Go Back   AzBilliards.com > Main Category > Main Forum
Reload this Page A Question about Ferrules
Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2
 
Share Thread Tools Rate Thread
A Question about Ferrules
Old
  (#1)
megatron69
AzB Silver Member
megatron69 has a reputation beyond reputemegatron69 has a reputation beyond reputemegatron69 has a reputation beyond reputemegatron69 has a reputation beyond reputemegatron69 has a reputation beyond reputemegatron69 has a reputation beyond reputemegatron69 has a reputation beyond reputemegatron69 has a reputation beyond reputemegatron69 has a reputation beyond reputemegatron69 has a reputation beyond reputemegatron69 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 227
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Phoenix az
   
A Question about Ferrules - 04-12-2019, 03:09 PM

So I was idly messing around looking at some cues online and noticed that they gave options for ferrule materials:

ABS
Aegis
G10 combo
IvorX
Ivorine VI
Elforyn
Juma
Melamine
Micarta II
Phenolic combo
Porper
PVC
Saber-T

My question: how much of a difference is there between these options? Is it really worth it to me to spend nearly $30/ferrule, now that I'm not a gambler/big tournament player? As I mentioned in another thread, I'm now a semi-serious league player whose FARGO is somewhere between 450-500.

How would I notice a difference? Is it just durability? Or would there be a difference in how it hits/feel, or control? Other?

Thanks in advance for you replies.
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#2)
garczar
AzB Silver Member
garczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 9,104
vCash: 500
iTrader: 13 / 93%
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Murica
   
04-12-2019, 03:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by megatron69 View Post
So I was idly messing around looking at some cues online and noticed that they gave options for ferrule materials:

ABS
Aegis
G10 combo
IvorX
Ivorine VI
Elforyn
Juma
Melamine
Micarta II
Phenolic combo
Porper
PVC
Saber-T

My question: how much of a difference is there between these options? Is it really worth it to me to spend nearly $30/ferrule, now that I'm not a gambler/big tournament player? As I mentioned in another thread, I'm now a semi-serious league player whose FARGO is somewhere between 450-500.

How would I notice a difference? Is it just durability? Or would there be a difference in how it hits/feel, or control? Other?

Thanks in advance for you replies.
Harder/softer will affect feel. Weight will affect deflection. http://www.dzcues.com/ferrules_4.html The lighter the better as far as defl. goes.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#3)
cubswin
Just call me Joe...
cubswin has a reputation beyond reputecubswin has a reputation beyond reputecubswin has a reputation beyond reputecubswin has a reputation beyond reputecubswin has a reputation beyond reputecubswin has a reputation beyond reputecubswin has a reputation beyond reputecubswin has a reputation beyond reputecubswin has a reputation beyond reputecubswin has a reputation beyond reputecubswin has a reputation beyond repute
 
cubswin's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 4,223
vCash: 500
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Indiana
   
04-12-2019, 04:22 PM

Yes there is a big difference.

Ivorx is impossible to find these days, as is good linen based melamine. Phenolic and g10 is usually used on break cues, since it is very hard.

Juma and Saber-T are both easy to get, and play well. Masons micarta was great, stayed clean and played well. Not everyone has it now.

PVC and ABS don't belong on a cue in my opinion. Aegis isn't all that great either.


""It's even, but it ain't settled. Let's settle it." Fast Eddie
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#4)
Straightpool_99
I see dead balls
Straightpool_99 has a reputation beyond reputeStraightpool_99 has a reputation beyond reputeStraightpool_99 has a reputation beyond reputeStraightpool_99 has a reputation beyond reputeStraightpool_99 has a reputation beyond reputeStraightpool_99 has a reputation beyond reputeStraightpool_99 has a reputation beyond reputeStraightpool_99 has a reputation beyond reputeStraightpool_99 has a reputation beyond reputeStraightpool_99 has a reputation beyond reputeStraightpool_99 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Straightpool_99's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,801
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Blog Entries: 6
Join Date: Feb 2006
   
04-12-2019, 04:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by megatron69 View Post
So I was idly messing around looking at some cues online and noticed that they gave options for ferrule materials:

ABS
Aegis
G10 combo
IvorX
Ivorine VI
Elforyn
Juma
Melamine
Micarta II
Phenolic combo
Porper
PVC
Saber-T

My question: how much of a difference is there between these options? Is it really worth it to me to spend nearly $30/ferrule, now that I'm not a gambler/big tournament player? As I mentioned in another thread, I'm now a semi-serious league player whose FARGO is somewhere between 450-500.

How would I notice a difference? Is it just durability? Or would there be a difference in how it hits/feel, or control? Other?

Thanks in advance for you replies.
Some ferrules stay a little bit cleaner than others. Some have more deflection, because they are heavier. I did change my ferrules to juma, and have been reasonably happy with it. I had to because two of my shafts had small cracks in the ferrule and juma is what the cue guy could get the fastest, and I needed them right away. Juma has good qualities, too.

I'd advice against changing your ferrules unless needed. It can be botched, it's unnecessary and the effect is much smaller and less noticable than changing your tip (feel). As far as deflection is concerned, unless you've got some huge, capped Ivorine monstrosity, I wouldn't worry about it. Some guys like hard ferrules like phenolic. I think it's too damned hard. Ivorine is too heavy with tons of deflection. I have a carbon fibre ferrule on my Chinese 8 ball cue, btw. Hits pretty hard, plays decently overall, but if that cue had a Juma ferrule, I wouldn't go out of my way to change it, neither do I want to change it to Juma from it's current configuration. It's just a lot of money and waiting for a very minimal, practical effect.

Last edited by Straightpool_99; 04-12-2019 at 05:02 PM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#5)
deanoc
AzB Silver Member
deanoc has a reputation beyond reputedeanoc has a reputation beyond reputedeanoc has a reputation beyond reputedeanoc has a reputation beyond reputedeanoc has a reputation beyond reputedeanoc has a reputation beyond reputedeanoc has a reputation beyond reputedeanoc has a reputation beyond reputedeanoc has a reputation beyond reputedeanoc has a reputation beyond reputedeanoc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 11,183
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 260 / 100%
Blog Entries: 10
Join Date: Nov 2007
   
04-12-2019, 05:01 PM

i don't think it is much if any different

i know not everyone agrees

the tip is what makes the difference to me
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#6)
garczar
AzB Silver Member
garczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 9,104
vCash: 500
iTrader: 13 / 93%
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Murica
   
04-13-2019, 03:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanoc View Post
i don't think it is much if any different

i know not everyone agrees

the tip is what makes the difference to me
It really depends on the cue. You put a hard ferrule and tip on a stiff cue and its gonna hit hard. You put a softer ferrule,say Juma, and tip on same cue and it feel totally different. I like Juma and the new Tomahawk myself. The Tomahawk seems to be a tad harder but they both play and look fine.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#7)
ctyhntr
RIP Ginky
ctyhntr has a reputation beyond reputectyhntr has a reputation beyond reputectyhntr has a reputation beyond reputectyhntr has a reputation beyond reputectyhntr has a reputation beyond reputectyhntr has a reputation beyond reputectyhntr has a reputation beyond reputectyhntr has a reputation beyond reputectyhntr has a reputation beyond reputectyhntr has a reputation beyond reputectyhntr has a reputation beyond repute
 
ctyhntr's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 5,796
vCash: 500
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Blog Entries: 2
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
   
04-13-2019, 06:45 AM

Try a forum search, I remember some great threads on this topic a couple of years back. Some of the experts that chimed in, no longer on this board.


My ego is writing checks that my stroke can't cash.
  
Reply With Quote
ferrules
Old
  (#8)
ShootingArts
Smorg is giving the 7!
ShootingArts has a reputation beyond reputeShootingArts has a reputation beyond reputeShootingArts has a reputation beyond reputeShootingArts has a reputation beyond reputeShootingArts has a reputation beyond reputeShootingArts has a reputation beyond reputeShootingArts has a reputation beyond reputeShootingArts has a reputation beyond reputeShootingArts has a reputation beyond reputeShootingArts has a reputation beyond reputeShootingArts has a reputation beyond repute
 
ShootingArts's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 11,874
vCash: 2900
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: South of the Border
   
ferrules - 04-13-2019, 07:06 AM

A ferrule was originally added to protect the front of the shaft. Now a pad can do the same thing. Another use for a ferrule, especially as our eyes get older is a visual aid to see the front of the shaft. I was shooting with a revo shaft a few days ago, very hard for me to see the end of the shaft.

As a general rule, the closer to the tip the more important a component is. That puts the ferrule pretty high in the order of importance. Slow speed video is available now showing the tip striking the cue ball. I think most that haven't seen them will be amazed how much some ferrules move. I pulled the ferrules off of over a hundred house cues awhile back. Every one of them had a full coating of blue chalk under the capped ferrules. Not some, or most, every one.

After seeing that I wouldn't put a soft ferrule on a stick of mine. My ferrules have gotten shorter with time and I currently favor one the same length as the diameter of the cue or shorter mostly as a visual aid or I would be just as happy with a pad. Didn't get around to trying it but I bought a piece of very high grade aluminum, 7075, to test as a short ferrule.

Hu
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#9)
Kim Bye
AzB Silver Member
Kim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond repute
 
Kim Bye's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,131
vCash: 500
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Oslo
   
04-13-2019, 01:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by megatron69 View Post
So I was idly messing around looking at some cues online and noticed that they gave options for ferrule materials:

ABS
Aegis
G10 combo
IvorX
Ivorine VI
Elforyn
Juma
Melamine
Micarta II
Phenolic combo
Porper
PVC
Saber-T

My question: how much of a difference is there between these options? Is it really worth it to me to spend nearly $30/ferrule, now that I'm not a gambler/big tournament player? As I mentioned in another thread, I'm now a semi-serious league player whose FARGO is somewhere between 450-500.

How would I notice a difference? Is it just durability? Or would there be a difference in how it hits/feel, or control? Other?

Thanks in advance for you replies.
It might be your frasing, but: "giving options on ferrule materials" is not something production cues and often custom cues don't do. Some of the materials listed, like G10 or phenolic is mostly used for jump or break cues. Big brands can afford to develop their own formula or buy stuff in really big quanteties, wich is not how your avreage cuemaker gets their material. Some materials like LBM, Sabre-T, Ivorine are quite hard, Micarta, depending on how it's made is more in the medium hardness group, I would say that Juma and Elforyn also fits into that group, other materials can be softer.
But it's not just the hardness of the material, is the ferrule capped or open, threaded or not threaded, whats the tennon size, ferrule length and diameter etc.
All of this plays into the hit of the cue, but as long as your not a cuemaker, I would say that you really shouldnt pay too much attention to this as in allmost every case out there, the choice of material and construction is allready done for you.
If you are having a shaft repaired, going with the original material is allmost always a safe route to take, but there are times where the original material might not be available or you or the cuemaker for some reason wants to change the material for a particular reason. I did this just a few days ago for a customer who wanted his OB break shaft repaired. He really didnt care about the OB cues philosophy or design, he wanted a ferrule that would not crack and that he didnt have to worry about some sort of special pad in order to keep the integrity of the ferrule, so I installed a capped LBM ferrule and a Taom tip. Does it hit differently? It sure does, but this was explained to the customer, and it in no way plays worse, just a bit different



Cold silence
has a tendency
to atrophy any
sense of compassion
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#10)
j2pac
Marital Slow Learner.

j2pac has a reputation beyond reputej2pac has a reputation beyond reputej2pac has a reputation beyond reputej2pac has a reputation beyond reputej2pac has a reputation beyond reputej2pac has a reputation beyond reputej2pac has a reputation beyond reputej2pac has a reputation beyond reputej2pac has a reputation beyond reputej2pac has a reputation beyond reputej2pac has a reputation beyond repute
 
j2pac's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 11,871
vCash: 500
iTrader: 59 / 100%
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Proud Buckeye!
   
04-13-2019, 08:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cubswin View Post
Yes there is a big difference.

Ivorx is impossible to find these days, as is good linen based melamine. Phenolic and g10 is usually used on break cues, since it is very hard.

Juma and Saber-T are both easy to get, and play well. Masons micarta was great, stayed clean and played well. Not everyone has it now.

PVC and ABS don't belong on a cue in my opinion. Aegis isn't all that great either.
Tomahawk is readily available, and the pound for pound champ IMO. It is available through Kelly Peterson here at AZB, or at, www.MVPcues.com


"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire - "What you are shouts so loudly in my ears, I cannot hear what you say." - R.W. Emerson -

TOMAHAWK FERRULE MATERIAL - NO CLICK, JUST BANG.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#11)
Lawnboy77
AzB Silver Member
Lawnboy77 has a reputation beyond reputeLawnboy77 has a reputation beyond reputeLawnboy77 has a reputation beyond reputeLawnboy77 has a reputation beyond reputeLawnboy77 has a reputation beyond reputeLawnboy77 has a reputation beyond reputeLawnboy77 has a reputation beyond reputeLawnboy77 has a reputation beyond reputeLawnboy77 has a reputation beyond reputeLawnboy77 has a reputation beyond reputeLawnboy77 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Lawnboy77's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 350
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Sep 2015
   
04-13-2019, 09:04 PM


A Bob Runde cue here; Can anyone ID this ferrule material? Juma? Just love this hit and wanted to know more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by Lawnboy77; 04-14-2019 at 07:45 AM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#12)
megatron69
AzB Silver Member
megatron69 has a reputation beyond reputemegatron69 has a reputation beyond reputemegatron69 has a reputation beyond reputemegatron69 has a reputation beyond reputemegatron69 has a reputation beyond reputemegatron69 has a reputation beyond reputemegatron69 has a reputation beyond reputemegatron69 has a reputation beyond reputemegatron69 has a reputation beyond reputemegatron69 has a reputation beyond reputemegatron69 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 227
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Phoenix az
   
04-14-2019, 05:04 PM

Hey guys, thanks for all the info.

I did in fact try a search but didn't find anything that addressed my questions precisely.

For the life of me now I can't remember which site I was on that had the button that gave you ferrule options, and I honestly didn't know that there were so many options available.

Based on the information in this thread, I doubt I'll ever be in the market for an aftermarket ferrule, but it's good to have the information.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#13)
henrylr
AzB Silver Member
henrylr has a reputation beyond reputehenrylr has a reputation beyond reputehenrylr has a reputation beyond reputehenrylr has a reputation beyond reputehenrylr has a reputation beyond reputehenrylr has a reputation beyond reputehenrylr has a reputation beyond reputehenrylr has a reputation beyond reputehenrylr has a reputation beyond reputehenrylr has a reputation beyond reputehenrylr has a reputation beyond repute
 
henrylr's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 71
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Connecticut
   
09-23-2019, 09:44 AM

You didn't mention ivory. Where does it fall in relation to all the man made materials you listed. Also I thought the red hot pin test was a way to verify ivory--- Ivory will not melt and pin won't sink in. Will a red hot pin sink into all the man made materials?

Thanks,
henrylr
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#14)
JoeyInCali
AzB Silver Member

JoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond repute
 
JoeyInCali's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 23,777
vCash: 4400
iTrader: 80 / 100%
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: OC, California
   
09-23-2019, 09:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by henrylr View Post
You didn't mention ivory. Where does it fall in relation to all the man made materials you listed. Also I thought the red hot pin test was a way to verify ivory--- Ivory will not melt and pin won't sink in. Will a red hot pin sink into all the man made materials?

Thanks,
henrylr
Hard, heavy, more deflection ( cue ball ) and has the best feel.
And now , for the most parts, illegal.


  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#15)
j2pac
Marital Slow Learner.

j2pac has a reputation beyond reputej2pac has a reputation beyond reputej2pac has a reputation beyond reputej2pac has a reputation beyond reputej2pac has a reputation beyond reputej2pac has a reputation beyond reputej2pac has a reputation beyond reputej2pac has a reputation beyond reputej2pac has a reputation beyond reputej2pac has a reputation beyond reputej2pac has a reputation beyond repute
 
j2pac's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 11,871
vCash: 500
iTrader: 59 / 100%
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Proud Buckeye!
   
09-23-2019, 09:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyInCali View Post
Hard, heavy, more deflection ( cue ball ) and has the best feel.
And now , for the most parts, illegal.
Obviously I am biased towards Tomahawk, but...I really liked/loved the IvorX as well. Great stuff.


"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire - "What you are shouts so loudly in my ears, I cannot hear what you say." - R.W. Emerson -

TOMAHAWK FERRULE MATERIAL - NO CLICK, JUST BANG.
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.