Pivoting systems and their relationship to CTE

Mirza

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This man has been on the attack against my work and me for many years.

Hal did not want the likes of this man to ever see his work and this guy is the worst of the worst. I am not interested in seeing my life's work attacked by this man.

I am not sure what I will do but I hate feeding Miserella.

Stan Shuffett

Put him on ignore, you'll lose nothing and gain everything, as shall we, I doubt anyone even reads his posts, just look at them, who would read all that shit?
 

Vorpal Cue

Just galumping back
Silver Member
He turns everything into misery, not mistery, haven't you noticed by now? Why continue to communicate with him?

Just trying to use some math and physics to help him get a better understanding of the 'mechanics' behind pivoting systems. We're about half way to refuting objection #6 on the list in the first post. (anyone remember the original topic?) It's unfortunate he doesn't want to continue.
 

Redneck Jim

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This man has been on the attack against my work and me for many years.

Hal did not want the likes of this man to ever see his work and this guy is the worst of the worst. I am not interested in seeing my life's work attacked by this man.

I am not sure what I will do but I hate feeding Miserella.

Stan Shuffett

Do yourself .( and the rest of us ). a big favor and put him on Ignore.


It might also help, if a few times a day, you repeat the words:

" I will not respond to trolls ... I will not respond to trolls ... I will not respond to trolls "

.
.
.
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Just trying to use some math and physics to help him get a better understanding of the 'mechanics' behind pivoting systems. We're about half way to refuting objection #6 on the list in the first post. (anyone remember the original topic?) It's unfortunate he doesn't want to continue.

'Larry'

You are in no way near to doing that...

not as the visuals have been defined.

Best Wishes.
 
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Vorpal Cue

Just galumping back
Silver Member
'Larry'

You are in no way near to doing that...

not as the visuals have been defined.

Best Wishes.

6 is false and can be explained by correlating the change in table position with the rotation of the cue ball edge which adjusts the angle to the shot line.

I estimate about half way. Consideration of the zero angle shot line is the next half.

Everything must be taken a step at a time in small bites. I want to keep your objections confined to just a single point.
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
6 is false and can be explained by correlating the change in table position with the rotation of the cue ball edge which adjusts the angle to the shot line.

I estimate about half way. Consideration of the zero angle shot line is the next half.

Everything must be taken a step at a time in small bites. I want to keep your objections confined to just a single point.

I'm out & will wait for the complete argument to be revealed.

Somewhere earlier you stated that you did not see how the 5 shots could all be made from the same visual...

or was that in PM?
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
'Larry'

You are in no way near to doing that...

not as the visuals have been defined.

Best Wishes.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

& Along with how the pivot has been defined.

The thing is I don't think we are even talking about the same method with the same restrictions.

Your initial list was very small in its descriptions. We qualified one of them 'a bit'.

Perhaps that was not enough or it has been forgotten.
 

Vorpal Cue

Just galumping back
Silver Member
I'm out & will wait for the complete argument to be revealed.

It's either now or never. I see one path to help you out and no other. I'm not going to try and refute many objections at once. I'm trying to lay out my points as you would with a proof in geometry class. If you don't like where the science and math is leading, you can bail out now if you wish. You've been asking for proof for a long time and here it is.

Somewhere earlier you stated that you did not see how the 5 shots could all be made from the same visual...

My opinion on the manner has been stated numerous times in this post. See post 24, page 2. No comprehendo Stanno OK?

or was that in PM?


jhhfkgckhggckyd filler to pre read post. forgot it was there my bad
 
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ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by ENGLISH! View Post
I'm out & will wait for the complete argument to be revealed.

It's either now or never. I see one path to help you out and no other. I'm not going to try and refute many objections at once. I'm trying to lay out my points as you would with a proof in geometry class. If you don't like where the science and math is leading, you can bail out now if you wish. You've been asking for proof for a long time and here it is.

Somewhere earlier you stated that you did not see how the 5 shots could all be made from the same visual...

My opinion on the manner has been stated numerous times in this post. See post 24, page 2. No comprehendo Stanno OK?

or was that in PM?





Nice try.

How do YOU, Vorpal Cue, know for how long I've been asking for proof?

I don't know if you were in remedial classes or not

I was in advance math, trig, calculus, & physics & my teachers taught the lesson & THEN asked if there were any questions.

They did not wait to get confirmation that everyone understood each baby step.

I guess it's different strokes for different folks. Some teachers made me sit there while question upon question was asked & answered... some asked me if I got it... & let me go do something else.

If you do not want to put it all out here in your thread in one serving. That's fine.

That's up to you & it is YOUR choice.

You seem to be much like another in that regard.

Best Wishes.
 

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you want to use a pivot then try this:

Put the OB in the center of the table with the CB on the spot. Put your Bridge/hand 12.0” behind the CB.

Drop down with the center of the CB aimed at the right edge of the OB, shoot and mark where the OB touches the far rail. This is approx. 30 degree cut angle.

Drop down on the shot with the tip of the cue ½ of its diameter to the right side with the shaft aimed at the right edge of the OB. Pivot the center of the tip to the center of the CB, shoot and mark where the OB touches the far rail. This is less than a 30 degree cut angle

Drop down on the shot with the tip of the cue 1 diameter to the side with the shaft aimed at the right edge of the OB. Pivot the center of the tip to the center of the CB, shoot and mark where the OB touches the far rail. This is less than the cut angle above.

So if the shot at hand is less than 30 degrees, one can make an adjustment based on the results above.

Do the same exercise above except with the fractions of the tip to the left side of the CB aimed at the right edge of the OB pre-pivot. This will result in cut angles greater than 30 degrees.

Do the same exercise with the fractions of the tip aimed at the center of the OB for cut angles that are not quite a straight in shot.

Do the same exercises above with the tip 2 diameters to the side for even greater cut angles than those above. This is particularly useful for CTE aiming greater than 30 degrees where the final aim line is outside of the right and left edge of the OB where
one can’t use imagined points on the equator around the OB as a reference.

The rub is when the separation between the CB and OB are closer or farther apart but the principles are the same – just different tip fractions. Use smaller fractions for large separations and greater for small separations.

Now repeat the exercise using the quarters on the equator of the OB, then eighths etc..

Have fun or use ghost ball, DD, Cp2Cp or HAMB or…instead.:smile::thumbup:

CTE with 1/4 tip offset at one diamond CB to OB separation = 15 degree cut angle.

CTE with 1/4 tip offset at two diamond CB to OB separation = 7 degree cut angle.

CTE with 1/4 tip offset at three diamond CB to OB separation = 1 degree cut angle.

PIVOT.JPG

At four diamond separation one would be cutting the OB to the right.
Have fun:)
 
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Vorpal Cue

Just galumping back
Silver Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by ENGLISH! View Post
I'm out & will wait for the complete argument to be revealed.

It's either now or never. I see one path to help you out and no other. I'm not going to try and refute many objections at once. I'm trying to lay out my points as you would with a proof in geometry class. If you don't like where the science and math is leading, you can bail out now if you wish. You've been asking for proof for a long time and here it is.

Somewhere earlier you stated that you did not see how the 5 shots could all be made from the same visual...

My opinion on the manner has been stated numerous times in this post. See post 24, page 2. No comprehendo Stanno OK?

or was that in PM?





Nice try.

How do YOU, Vorpal Cue, know for how long I've been asking for proof?

By reading old threads. You're quite visual in them with your demands for proof.

I don't know if you were in remedial classes or not

So sad you're throwing the first spitball.

I was in advance math, trig, calculus, & physics & my teachers taught the lesson & THEN asked if there were any questions.

They did not wait to get confirmation that everyone understood each baby step.

The teaching methods are formed around the student. Those that resist need different considerations.

I guess it's different strokes for different folks. Some teachers made me sit there while question upon question was asked & answered... some asked me if I got it... & let me go do something else.

If you do not want to put it all out here in your thread in one serving. That's fine.

That's up to you & it is YOUR choice.

You seem to be much like another in that regard.

Best Wishes.

You've been asking for proof. Here it is. Enough said.
 

Vorpal Cue

Just galumping back
Silver Member
You've provided proof of nothing.

I've provided proof that a change of table position will cause a 'dance of tangent points' you weren't aware of. That's foundational information you were lacking. I showed you relative rotation, which you fought, although it's a part of physics. We're half way to disproving #6. Why stop now?

But... I see more & more of that other fella.

??????????


Here's the proof. Want it or not? You've been asking for years.
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Here's the proof. Want it or not? You've been asking for years.

You've shown me nothing that I did not already know...

You were using the language improperly...

Then you added wording when I pointed that out.

Why do you want to stop & not show it all...

as a "lesson'.

Why do you want to pull teeth with me?

We've only just 'met'.

Haven't we?
 

Vorpal Cue

Just galumping back
Silver Member
You've shown me nothing that I did not already know...

You were using the language improperly...

??? Where was that?

Then you added wording when I pointed that out.

Why do you want to stop & not show it all...

as a "lesson'.

Why do you want to pull teeth with me?

You fight every statement I make, run off on tangents, and are hard to keep on point. One step at a time is to avoid chaos.

We've only just 'met'.

Haven't we?


Yes we have.

Relative rotation took some doing and the movement of the tangent points was a surprise to you too. If you want more info, here it is!
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Relative rotation took some doing and the movement of the tangent points was a surprise to you too. If you want more info, here it is!

I do not need to get from you what I already knew & already know.

I do find it a bit interesting how you ignore & talk around some matters...

& only respond to what you choose...

& you do not answer certain questions either.

That is typical CTEer tactics.

Look. You do not need me for this. Just show what you want to show & give the explanation.

That is... Unless you joined AZB & opened this thread with just ME in mind.

Best Wishes to You & Yours
 

Vorpal Cue

Just galumping back
Silver Member
I do not need to get from you what I already knew & already know.

I do find it a bit interesting how you ignore & talk around some matters...

& only respond to what you choose...

The problem must be explained in a linear fashion. The only way I know to do it.

& you do not answer certain questions either.

Some of your questions pertain to objection #11. We can discuss that later afer #6 is resolved.

That is typical CTEer tactics.

Only been here a few months.

Look. You do not need me for this. Just show what you want to show & give the explanation.

Nope. This tour of Pivot Land is for you only. I thought you've been wanting to discuss this?

That is... Unless you joined AZB & opened this thread with just ME in mind.

I'm speechless but ..... I'm speechless

Best Wishes to You & Yours

Do you want the rest of the info or not?
 
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