Why CTE is silly

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champ2107

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GetMeThere said:
It's meaningless for one side to announce to the other "you're wrong."

Instead it's better to discuss facts and realities.

CTE claims to be an aiming system that provides the player with EXACT information (or physical line-ups) to make balls in pockets. But CTE does not take the relative positions of pocket and OB EXACTLY into account; and CB-OB-pocket layouts can be in any of an INFINITE variety of configurations. Therefore, CTE cannot meet the requirements of an "aiming system," which would be to tell you where (or how) to aim (or point the cue).

....no experience necessary.
Click to expand...

You tell me what you would like to see on a video about cte and i will make it?

Can you dumb this down for me so i know exactly what you mean?

CTE does not take the relative positions of pocket and OB EXACTLY into account; and CB-OB-pocket layouts can be in any of an INFINITE variety of configurations. Therefore, CTE cannot meet the requirements of an "aiming system," which would be to tell you where (or how) to aim (or point the cue)
 
peteypooldude

peteypooldude

I see Edges
Silver Member
Ball Crusher said:
it's none of my business but i personally have shot in many tourneys with petey and since he started using CTE his game has improved 100 % i hate to see him walk in the pool room now. so i know it works
Click to expand...

Thank You I appreciate it
Petey
 
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lfigueroa

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
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elvicash said:
If you doubt CTE then do not use it. I do not think it is a good technique for you. CTE is good for people who have worked with it and believe in the improvements in there game. As for me I am a CTE user, I am not a CTE advocate. What little I know about CTE seems to help my game whether it is a sicentific or engineered system or not. i like it.

Why do you have to hate on something such as a technique. If you can play some other way better then good for you get on with it. I do not think there is a technique for aiming that will fit for all people I do not care what you comeup with because we are people all sizes and shapes with all kinds of differences. I know whatever you do nothing will work if you do not hit the CB consistently. We are not made of linear slides with laser beams. If you want it to be that delineated then I guess you will hate on just about any technique.
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Elvi: please excuse me if I'm wrong, but are you the guy who tapes the 14.1 challenge at the DCC? If so, and if you'll be there in January, would you be willing to show me your use of CTE in the 14.1 room?

Lou Figueroa
 
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GetMeThere

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
champ2107 said:
You tell me what you would like to see on a video about cte and i will make it...
Click to expand...

That's GREAT! It's a very constructive offer that everyone will appreciate.

I would like to see your demonstration making the three shots that Dr. Dave shows here. And what I would like to see and hear is a PRECISE, step-by-step description of EXACTLY what you are doing--explained like you would explain it to a friend who had NEVER HEARD OF IT, and has NO IDEA what you're talking about.

Then, when you're done with the three shots, I'd like to hear you explain or show what the DIFFERENCES were in what you did for each shot--since each shot is at a different angle to the pocket, if you made each shot, you had to hit the OB in a DIFFERENT PLACE on each shot. I want an explanation of WHAT CTE TOLD YOU TO DO DIFFERENTLY on each shot, to make it each time at three different angles.

My understanding is that the CTE setup would be the SAME for each shot, yet, to make them, the OB must be hit in DIFFERENT places. I want you to show and explain WHY the CB hits the OB in different places if you set the shot up exactly the same way for all three.

If you are able to explain EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY each step of the setup process for each shot, then it should be easy to understand what's going on. If you just "pivot and shoot" and say "there it is" then you haven't really explained what you're doing. We need to know where pivots start and where and why they stop in order to make any particular shot--according to the rules of CTE.

If you can demonstrate that really CLEARLY then you'll be doing a LOT of people a BIG favor, and maybe there can be a lot of useful discussion thereafter.
 
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dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
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JB Cases said:
Which direct evidence do you have that CTE does not work?
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John,

This is the exact kind of question that makes people suspicious of CTE. It's like saying: "I believe a teapot orbits Mars. Which direct evidence do you have that this is not true?"

I only way people will know exactly how your version of CTE works for you is to see the video you plan to create, where you show different views and close-ups (especially from above) that show exactly how you align, exactly how you pivot, and exactly how you stroke (e.g., swoop or not) for a wide range of shots with varying cut angles. Then, it will be clear to everybody "how it works," and there will be no need to "show me why it doesn't work."

A clear and illustrative video by you or anybody else who wants to show how their version of CTE really "works" for them would be very helpful in this discussion/debate. It would be very easy to create a video showing CTE not working, but that would not be helpful to the discussion/debate. It is also not helpful posting a video of somebody making a bunch of shots (with or without part of the table covered), unless we can clearly see the steps (alignment, pivot, stroke) and how they change with varying cut angle. The changes might seem natural and even subconscious; but with clear camera views, the differences from one shot to the next will be obvious, and this will conclusively prove how CTE works.

Regards,
Dave
 
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GetMeThere

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
dr_dave said:
John,

This is the exact kind of question that makes people suspicious of CTE. It's like saying: "I believe a teapot orbits Mars. Which direct evidence do you have that this is not true?"
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I disagree with that. An assertion about a teapot orbiting Mars is a SIMPLE assertion--with NO basis whatsoever (I would assume).

Assertions about what CTE can do HAVE a basis: the RULES of the CTE process. That being the case, it is possible in principle to PROVE that it should work (or not work) without even trying it--by analysis of its rules.

A better analogy is someone reporting there is teapot orbiting Mars because they looked up one night and caught a glimpse of it. At that point it can be PROVED that the human eye is utterly incapable of that resolution--and thus the claim can be convincingly "disproved."

If CTE is defined as a methodical physical (not subconscious) process that aligns a cue along a line which, when stroked, will pocket a ball, and that process calls for the IDENTICAL alignment for the three (differently angled) shots under discussion...then that is sufficient direct evidence that "CTE does not work."
 
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12310bch

12310bch

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Silver Member
I was shocked, GetMeThere, at your profligate misuse of quotation marks throughout the original post! :shocked2::nono:
 
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champ2107

Banned
GetMeThere said:
That's GREAT! It's a very constructive offer that everyone will appreciate.

I would like to see your demonstration making the three shots that Dr. Dave shows here. And what I would like to see and hear is a PRECISE, step-by-step description of EXACTLY what you are doing--explained like you would explain it to a friend who had NEVER HEARD OF IT, and has NO IDEA what you're talking about.

Then, when you're done with the three shots, I'd like to hear you explain or show what the DIFFERENCES were in what you did for each shot--since each shot is at a different angle to the pocket, if you made each shot, you had to hit the OB in a DIFFERENT PLACE on each shot. I want an explanation of WHAT CTE TOLD YOU TO DO DIFFERENTLY on each shot, to make it each time at three different angles.

My understanding is that the CTE setup would be the SAME for each shot, yet, to make them, the OB must be hit in DIFFERENT places. I want you to show and explain WHY the CB hits the OB in different places if you set the shot up exactly the same way for all three.

If you are able to explain EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY each step of the setup process for each shot, then it should be easy to understand what's going on. If you just "pivot and shoot" and say "there it is" then you haven't really explained what you're doing. We need to know where pivots start and where and why they stop in order to make any particular shot--according to the rules of CTE.

If you can demonstrate that really CLEARLY then you'll be doing a LOT of people a BIG favor, and maybe there can be a lot of useful discussion thereafter.
Click to expand...



Ok i will make vid and show you exactly what u want to see and hear. I made a picture as how i will shoot all three shots from dr dave.
 
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GetMeThere

AzB Silver Member
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champ2107 said:
Ok i will make vid and show you exactly what u want to see and hear. I made a picture as how i will shoot all three shots from dr dave.
Click to expand...

Cool. If you want, you can also discuss before you even make the video how doing EXACTLY the same thing three times can make the OB take off at three DIFFERENT angles on each of those three trials.

People (like me) have the idea that if you DO THE SAME THING, you should GET THE SAME RESULT (which is this case would mean: the OB taking off at the same angle from where the CB hits it).
 
peteypooldude

peteypooldude

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Silver Member
GetMeThere said:
It's meaningless for one side to announce to the other "you're wrong."

Instead it's better to discuss facts and realities.

CTE claims to be an aiming system that provides the player with EXACT information (or physical line-ups) to make balls in pockets. But CTE does not take the relative positions of pocket and OB EXACTLY into account; and CB-OB-pocket layouts can be in any of an INFINITE variety of configurations. Therefore, CTE cannot meet the requirements of an "aiming system," which would be to tell you where (or how) to aim (or point the cue).

....no experience necessary.
Click to expand...
You should know that you have to use the correct information
to solve a problem using math . AND for the last time YOU DONT HAVE IT
It is not on Dr Daves page and you have been told the info is not correct.
But you keep adding and saying impossible .
Good Luck And no offense meant Dr Dave
 
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GetMeThere

AzB Silver Member
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peteypooldude said:
You should know that you have to use the correct information
to solve a problem using math . AND for the last time YOU DONT HAVE IT
It is not on Dr Daves page and you have been told the info is not correct.
But you keep adding and saying impossible .
Good Luck And no offense meant Dr Dave
Click to expand...


I've heard that one before--about the REAL, SECRET-SAUCE version of CTE. The fact is there IS no "official" version of CTE--because CTE (everybody agrees) is a creation of Hal Houle, and Hal has supplied apparently MULTIPLE versions, bits and pieces, etc.

If I'm to judge CTE I can only go by what people SAY about it. Most would agree that Spidey is at or near the nexus of CTE "technology." Spidey has DIRECTLY IMPLIED in his posts and in his videos that it is NOT REQUIRED to know the actual location of the pocket in order to use CTE.

By that characteristic ALONE it is possible to state with certainty that CTE cannot work as the exclusive source of aiming information necessary to pocket balls. That one piece of "correct information" is enough to dismiss CTE with CERTAINTY.

If you wish to claim that YOU are the possessor of the real secret sauce CTE, then you can list the methods and rules of the real CTE....and see where that takes us.
 
peteypooldude

peteypooldude

I see Edges
Silver Member
GetMeThere said:
I've heard that one before--about the REAL, SECRET-SAUCE version of CTE. The fact is there IS no "official" version of CTE--because CTE (everybody agrees) is a creation of Hal Houle, and Hal has supplied apparently MULTIPLE versions, bits and pieces, etc.

If I'm to judge CTE I can only go by what people SAY about it. Most would agree that Spidey is at or near the nexus of CTE "technology." Spidey has DIRECTLY IMPLIED in his posts and in his videos that it is NOT REQUIRED to know the actual location of the pocket in order to use CTE.

By that characteristic ALONE it is possible to state with certainty that CTE cannot work as the exclusive source of aiming information necessary to pocket balls. That one piece of "correct information" is enough to dismiss CTE with CERTAINTY.

If you wish to claim that YOU are the possessor of the real secret sauce CTE, then you can list the methods and rules of the real CTE....and see where that takes us.
Click to expand...

I do possess the secret sauce . Does it make it wrong that I wont give a full description? Does that give you the right to dismiss it . And be very
rude about it
 
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