My theory is aiming means nothing...

iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here is my theory...

If you knew EXACTLY where to hit to make a shot, for every shot, you would not play any better than your current level. My contention is that there is SO MUCH to this game, that the theoretical aiming point, line, ball, whatever, is an almost insignificant portion of your overall performance as a player.

How can we prove (or disprove) this theory?

1. Place one of Joe Tuckers ghost ball training aids
aimingstickers.jpg
under every single ball in a rack of 9 ball. This will tell you the perfect "ghost ball" location for each ball.

2. See if you can run the rack.
3. Repeat 50 racks, keeping score of how many balls you ran each rack.
4. Repeat 50 more racks, without the aid, and keep score.
5. Compare your results.
 
C

champ2107

Banned
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh forget it i deleted it, but if you want a laugh click on the Patrick Johnson link below lol
 
justnum

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
The shooting is easy the staying in the zone is the hard part.

My theory on the shooting well and shooting poorly is because few people know how to handle their off the table time during the match.

Some people once they are off can stay in the zone even though they aren't shooting, others once they get off the table they can get started again if they get back on the table.

What do you do when watching your opponent run out?

Everything I tried was a failure, the easy answer is to stay on the table.

But that doesn't answer the question. What are some good strategies or ideas for non-table time during a match?
 
greyghost

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
dam....that video hurt my stomach i laughed so hard lol.

but i agree with the op in a way that the aim is not the almighty factor......albiet of course it is a major key in the construction of the shot it is not the one thing that is going to take 5speed sam and turn him into 15 speed sam wise the great lol.

thats how i developed/stubmled upon that shadow method i've spoken about as i couldn't see distinctly clear before but that gave me a sort of great reference.......i guess the rest is just good mechanics and WILL.............

but i do agree that this aiming stuff being our tip top topic of problematic issues inherent to the game is not the final answer to all our pool woes.........tho interesting its not the complete answer, its only a part of the house we as players are trying to build.

what kind of house you got?
-Grey Ghost-
 
StickmnBiliards

StickmnBiliards

Stickman Billiards
Silver Member
I gave up aiming years ago. I don't play any better, but at least now I have a good excuse when I miss.
 
Ratta

Ratta

Hearing the balls.....
Silver Member
Not to get too far away from topic.
The highest amount of players are just workin on the wrong part of the game- and this was, is and will always be to be able to deliver your cue to the point you want. Withou a straight and repeatable stroke you can use every system in the universe, but without success.
And for sure this is the hardest part^^ to get knowledge just takes a bit time- but to burn in your mechanical abilities takes by far the most time-and many players are just not hard enough to themselves to work on it- instead of this they re more looking for excuses :)

Open your mind, work on your basics and ALL becomes soooo much easier.
First and biggest step: No excuses anymore :)

Sorry for getting a bit off-topic,

lg
Ingo
 
cleary

cleary

Honestly, I'm a liar.
Silver Member
iusedtoberich said:
Here is my theory...

If you knew EXACTLY where to hit to make a shot, for every shot, you would not play any better than your current level. My contention is that there is SO MUCH to this game, that the theoretical aiming point, line, ball, whatever, is an almost insignificant portion of your overall performance as a player.
Click to expand...

You are correct. Well, you may play SLIGHTLY better than normal (depending on your current level), but there are other reasons why you miss shots that trump aiming.
 
336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Aiming

greyghost said:
dam....that video hurt my stomach i laughed so hard lol.

but i agree with the op in a way that the aim is not the almighty factor......albiet of course it is a major key in the construction of the shot it is not the one thing that is going to take 5speed sam and turn him into 15 speed sam wise the great lol.

thats how i developed/stubmled upon that shadow method i've spoken about as i couldn't see distinctly clear before but that gave me a sort of great reference.......i guess the rest is just good mechanics and WILL.............

but i do agree that this aiming stuff being our tip top topic of problematic issues inherent to the game is not the final answer to all our pool woes.........tho interesting its not the complete answer, its only a part of the house we as players are trying to build.

what kind of house you got?
-Grey Ghost-
Click to expand...

Aiming is certainly not everything but I think that it opens up the door to the rest of the game. Just like this shadow reference GreyGhost talks about, he sees something that tells him he is right. When a person finds there "Happy Place" with the shot then they start to figure out the allowances for spin and speed which kind of start rounding out your chances of getting good on the next shot. When you figured out how to get good on all your shots then you learn to get perfect and if you kick good, bank good, get good results and learn to shoot ball behind the ball position youre getting some talent.
No aiming is certainly not everything but it sure is something.

Apparently its something worth talking about because we sure seem to do a lot of that but we talk or argue mostly over cte vs the naysayers but what I havent heard a lot from is exactly what the naysayers are doing that is working for them. Now that I think is interesting. Is it just intution or is there a way to focus all that? I think so anyway.

336Robin :thumbup:
Robin Kelly
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com


http://274928807619529663.weebly.com/
 
Q

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
I wouldn't dismiss aiming as insignificant, but I get the point & agree with it. Aiming is elementary & should be grasped very early on. Stance, stroke, grip, alignment, etc. are tougher to master & actually the culprit for a lot of missed shots. People miss a shot & assume that their aim was wrong when it may have been exactly right. And then i'm sure there are folks who struggle with aim, but IMO, if you are struggling with aim then there's likely other major issues you are ignoring.

I have been around the game long time. I have seen players come in not knowing how to hold a cue and they are short stop quality players in seemingly no time. They get down on the ball correctly & stroke smooth. It comes easy for them. They figure the aiming out very quickly & their natural talent takes over from there & they get really good really fast. Just an observation, but almost every single one of these kids were uneducated & couldn't care less about the technicalities of aiming systems and such. They just play & they do it very well. Then I see guys who have been playing for ever. They should know how to aim by now. They are smart, educated guys & they take a scientific approach to the game. They buy their Predators & they have their books out on the table. They are always trying new aiming systems & such, but almost always they disregard stance, alignment & stroke. They seem to have it backwards.

That's just observations I have made. I see it in every area I have played in. I'm certainly no pool instructor or guru of what makes good players. But I know what I see & it repeats itself over & over. So I get the point of the thread. Aiming isn't the cat's meow. It isn't to be taken lightly, but I think once you learn it then it should be ingrained & obvious. It's knowledge, not muscle memory. Your mechanics always need tune ups just like a car does in order to keep it working smoothly. But your car's computer never needs work, unless it breaks.
 
Jimbojim

Jimbojim

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Neil said:
You are making the assumption that the person can easily see where to aim each shot. I believe they can't. Now, most lower level players will have trouble consistently delivering the cb to where they want to due to bad strokes. But, if you just place the ghost ball on the table, most of the time the shooter will be able to put the cb right over it.

You say that aiming is a very insignificant part of the game. I disagree. I say it is a paramount significance. If you can't aim properly, you can't make the ball. If you can't make the ball, the rest of the game doesn't even come into play.

Aiming is only one part of the game, but a very important part of the game. However, aiming is not THE game. There are many facets to the game, and they all have to come together at the same time to play well. You can't dismiss any part of the equation and get the answer you want. You need ALL the pieces to run racks. Aiming is an important part of that equation.

Here are the pieces to that equation: Alignment, aiming, stroke straight, speed, spin, decision making, mental attitude = rack run. Take out any piece of that equation and you can easily get = sitting down and watching your opponent shoot. A few of those you can get away with not doing just right for a little while. Such as decision making, speed, spin, and mental attitude. But, they will catch up to you quickly. Alignment, aiming, you can make no mistakes. Stroking straight, in essence, you must have, however, it just has to be straight at the moment of impact . If it is not straight for the rest of the stroke, you can still make the ball, but that timing problem will catch up to you quickly, and you won't run many balls unless you are very consistent with swerving the cue at the last instant to get it on the proper line.
Click to expand...

Well said Neil! I fully agree with you
 
3andstop

3andstop

Focus
Silver Member
Ratta said:
Not to get too far away from topic.
The highest amount of players are just workin on the wrong part of the game- and this was, is and will always be to be able to deliver your cue to the point you want.
Click to expand...


I couldn't agree more. I've been saying this right along, and it's more obvious than you might think.

Throw a hand full of balls on the table and shoot them into the pockets without using the cue ball. Just shoot the object ball into the pockets with your cue stick. How many did you miss? Probably none.

That's because we all pretty much know where to hit the OB, the thing is to hone our strokes to be just as Ratta says straight and repeatable.

The key to playing well is being able to deliver the CB to the spot you already know without missing it.

Aiming systems give you a base to play from, but regardless, it still has to be delivered.

Stop your cue stick at the cue ball. Sight your shot and imagine you didn't have to apply a stroke to hit the CB. Imagine the CB could somehow magically be delivered down that aiming line you are sighting.

How many more shots do you think you'd make as opposed to the same shot that you have to move your cue backwards and forward to move the cue ball towards the OB target?
 
336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Reply to Qbilder

qbilder said:
I wouldn't dismiss aiming as insignificant, but I get the point & agree with it. Aiming is elementary & should be grasped very early on. Stance, stroke, grip, alignment, etc. are tougher to master & actually the culprit for a lot of missed shots. People miss a shot & assume that their aim was wrong when it may have been exactly right. And then i'm sure there are folks who struggle with aim, but IMO, if you are struggling with aim then there's likely other major issues you are ignoring.

I have been around the game long time. I have seen players come in not knowing how to hold a cue and they are short stop quality players in seemingly no time. They get down on the ball correctly & stroke smooth. It comes easy for them. They figure the aiming out very quickly & their natural talent takes over from there & they get really good really fast. Just an observation, but almost every single one of these kids were uneducated & couldn't care less about the technicalities of aiming systems and such. They just play & they do it very well. Then I see guys who have been playing for ever. They should know how to aim by now. They are smart, educated guys & they take a scientific approach to the game. They buy their Predators & they have their books out on the table. They are always trying new aiming systems & such, but almost always they disregard stance, alignment & stroke. They seem to have it backwards.

That's just observations I have made. I see it in every area I have played in. I'm certainly no pool instructor or guru of what makes good players. But I know what I see & it repeats itself over & over. So I get the point of the thread. Aiming isn't the cat's meow. It isn't to be taken lightly, but I think once you learn it then it should be ingrained & obvious. It's knowledge, not muscle memory. Your mechanics always need tune ups just like a car does in order to keep it working smoothly. But your car's computer never needs work, unless it breaks.
Click to expand...

Qbilder,
I agree with you in a lot of those areas you mentioned we all see that throughout pool.
Those guys you were talking about imo arent taking the time to see what those young kids are seeing and its gotten to a point where I doubt they will. Those are the folks that ignore the obvious and that is what I try to cover in my book. I try to specialize in finding ways to make people stop and see what it takes to make balls naturally letting them know what to look for which is the key to using the spin.
I was one of those young kids you talked about and I grew up and quit pool and went on to other things but when I came back to pool I just didnt have what I did as a kid and I didnt see it anymore and I knew I could get it back so I wrote my book from that perspective and yes I have it back and now its like it was when I was young with that sharp intuition and knowing what its going to take to make my game continue to grow. Its a feeling like none other when you get start getting it all right. I do think there is a way to teach that to those who for some reason just arent seeing it but I know exactly what you mean.

336Robin
Robin Kelly :thumbup:
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
http://274928807619529663.weebly.com/
 
Jaden

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
depends on your goal in pool....

At the highest levels, in the zone, most don't consciously think about the intricacies as they're playing. In that regard specific conscious aiming means far less than other aspects...

At the learning levels(technically we're ALL always learning), I think it greatly affects how quickly you can become better and get to a point where you can naturally play better.

At one point I was using a system where I visualized three lines coming from pocket through the OB, three parallel lines going through the CB, three lines going through the OB's tangent and three lines going through the CB's tangent and then three lines intersecting the square that is visually created.

It is VERY accurate at finding the aimline and the ghost ball's exact position, but it is cumbersome and tiring to do for long periods of time.

That's not to say that it isn't helpful during practice to learn muscle and visual memory of the correct aimlines for shots, it's just not practical to do all the time.

I think that the systems that are availble should be used in stages. That's the way I teach the game.

The first aiming system I'll teach is ghost ball, but I won't teach ANY aiming system until I teach proper mechanics and make sure that the student practices perfecting proper stroke.

I think feel and a good straight stroke can be one of the most effective tools. The mind can get in the way too much sometimes.

Don't get me wrong, knowledge is necessary and can only help significantly.

If you don't understand tangent, squirt, throw, swerve, reverse spin gearing effect etc... it is very difficult to play pool at a high level if you are not just naturally gifted and getting to a high level can take much longer than if you are not made aware of these things.

Is aiming properly necessary? Absolutely. Is a system that gives you perfect aim the be all end all???? Absolutely not without every other facet of the game in place as well.

Jaden
 
336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Is aiming properly necessary? Absolutely. Is a system that gives you perfect aim the be all end all???? Absolutely not without every other facet of the game in place as well. Jaden[/QUOTE said:
Jaden,
You are so right, I do not remember who I was talking to last week on here about that very thing but they mentioned all of what you said. You have to be able to apply it all in shot equations to really be playing the game. That is what I think my method exceeds at getting you to that end thats why I think my method is a big deal because it accentuates the real picture when it comes to shot making. Once you start to get it, it begins to flow.

336Robin
http://274928807619529663.weebly.com/
Click to expand...
 
L

luckwouldhaveit

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ever see the straightshooting young gun play weak patterns and position and pretty much just outpocket the guy that moves good and knows the game better?

You could say knowing the game better and moving better are a means to not miss. Just playing devil's advocate.
 
ceebee

ceebee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If aiming means nothing, try playing with a blindfold.

There are several facets to making balls. The guy or gal who is successful in using speed & spin, along with careful aiming, will usually become a good player.

JMHO

Good Luck
 
Winston846

Winston846

Aspiring 14.1 Player
Silver Member
luckwouldhaveit said:
Ever see the straightshooting young gun play weak patterns and position and pretty much just outpocket the guy that moves good and knows the game better?

You could say knowing the game better and moving better are a means to not miss. Just playing devil's advocate.
Click to expand...

I agree completely. I am a strong advocate of moves, knowledge, and position play, which is why I play 14.1 almost exclusively. If you can control the cue ball well enough, aiming shouldn't be much of an issue as you strive to leave yourself as easy as possible on your next shot.

But sometimes it isn't enough. I recently lost some sets of 9-ball (which I really don't play, but I felt inclined to challenge myself that night) like that. The guy I played had very weak cue ball/speed control, but it didn't matter because his pocketing would make up for it. Plus, in 9-ball, your position play doesn't have to be anywhere near as precise as it does in 14.1, so you can get away with it. To me, it's just a different style of game.

But, IMHO, if you can put the cue ball where you want it, aiming is a non-issue.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top