How good to win amateur opens?

FeelDaShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thats a totally different scenario. ;) If you take the mental game out of the equation then beating 9b ghost 9:1 maybe 9:2 at worst on average (bar table) is the level you are striving for at your offensive game. And that says nothing about your defence though, you have to be able to play air-tight safeties, good 1/2/3 rail escapes and you have to be very competent with jump stick. Also your break shot has to be controlled and strong enough. Next on the list is good fitness to be able to endure all day and sometimes even night long sessions.
Does this info help?;)

Perfect, thanks!
 

marek

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not sure I'd take the risk that pool will still be around by then.

Well it depends on the current skill level of said player. For example if I was given luxury of 2-3 months of 10-12 hours/day practice then I may be able to kick my game to the level of lower tier pros. And some guys here are even there already. Its the function of talent, dedication and maybe bit of luck, not much more to it :rolleyes:
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You forgot:
Dammit! Did I really drink 9 beers?!?!

I think you highlighted exactly what everyone is answering, in light-hearted ways. You have no mental game built against opponents if solely practicing at home. Zero. You might have great runout strategy, but without being in the fire, feeling someone hitting back, hearing the noise of other tables and players, having people walk by, and piling on all that requires tournament and toughness, you'll then have no idea what to expect.

The first time he gets surprised, shocked, stung by something that only a tournament situation can bring,

- hey, I didn't know I had to play a girl first
-nobody told me there's a calcutta
-the best player in the town came in?
- I didn't realize we're playing Predator 10-ball rules...
- why didn't my opponent shake my hand when I reached out before the lag
- and why did he growl?
- aren't they going to turn on the A/C?
- where am I supposed to sit when I/m not shooting
- bathroom breaks only when he shoots? Do What???
- This guy actually did runout against me....

But hey, it's just a mental thing at this point, right? No.

Freddie <~~~ lost already
 

jayburger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok, lets talk pool. Not once in the history of the world has an unknown top level player walked out of his basement shadows into the light of day. Doesn’t happen no matter how many people say “it’s possible”. There are no New Yorks and Arizona’s.

If being “that guy” means that I’m the guy that calls bullshit when I hear it, yep, that’s me. :thumbup:

Chuck Harold worst did exactly that. Called the poolroom in Jacksonville Florida and challenged(and beat) wimpy lassiter.
 

PhilosopherKing

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's actually been done twice, and it happened simultaneously, and it happened at the highest level, and the two guys managed, by what could only have been divine intervention, to find each other and become road partners:

Allow me to introduce the legendary New York and Arizona.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Chuck Harold worst did exactly that. Called the poolroom in Jacksonville Florida and challenged(and beat) wimpy lassiter.

"Unknown" then and now are enough different to preclude "then" as an example, id think.

And worst was mentored by hoppe... as per hypertexts .i doubt he went unnoticed, prior to doling out his whuppins.
 

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Unrealistic, Hypothetical Question:

Let's say you move to a new town where no one knows you. The competition level in this new town is average among all other US cities. You decide to practice alone in your house for years and you don't plan to come out until you are capable of winning a monthly open. For example, 9-ball, $500 added, $40 entry, race to 7/5 on a bar box.

How good would you have to play against the barbox 9-ball ghost until you feel you are ready to leave the house and get the cash?

Silly plan. How do you deal with the fact that tourney table plays different than you basement table? How good are you going to be at playing safe when necessary? How are you going to deal with being left safe by your opponent?
 

book collector

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Unrealistic, Hypothetical Question:

Let's say you move to a new town where no one knows you. The competition level in this new town is average among all other US cities. You decide to practice alone in your house for years and you don't plan to come out until you are capable of winning a monthly open. For example, 9-ball, $500 added, $40 entry, race to 7/5 on a bar box.

How good would you have to play against the barbox 9-ball ghost until you feel you are ready to leave the house and get the cash?

About 8 out of 10 average without ball in hand after the break, that would make you competitive, winning is another animal.
Lots of people play good enough to win , but don't..
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Silly plan. How do you deal with the fact that tourney table plays different than you basement table? How good are you going to be at playing safe when necessary? How are you going to deal with being left safe by your opponent?

And nevermind the fact that you will likely sit around for a few hours between relatively quick matches.

Tourney is a significantly different experience, compared to playing.withyourself at home.
 

mvp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You are all overthinking this one. A 40$ tournament, if a person could beat ghost 4-5 out of 9 games I'd say the student would have a fair chance of winning an average tournament! As long as the local world beater wasn't entering! People need to remember that not all areas are as strong as others.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
All I know, from personal experience, is that you can convince yourself of some pretty crazy ca-ca in the safety and comfort of your home track.

Lou Figueroa
 

JC

Coos Cues
If you're playing anyone who keeps you sitting for much of the time and then when you shoot it's do or die it's another ball game than playing the ghost.

The waiting can be the hardest part.

JC
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Unrealistic, Hypothetical Question:

Let's say you move to a new town where no one knows you. The competition level in this new town is average among all other US cities. You decide to practice alone in your house for years and you don't plan to come out until you are capable of winning a monthly open. For example, 9-ball, $500 added, $40 entry, race to 7/5 on a bar box.

How good would you have to play against the barbox 9-ball ghost until you feel you are ready to leave the house and get the cash?

These are my last sets of scores with the 10 ball ghost from last week over a three day period:

11 - 2
11 - 6
11 - 3

15 - 4
15 - 6

25 - 8
25 - 12

I did not lose even one set in those three days. I beat the 9 ball ghost even worse on average.

Rules I use:

Magic rack, BIH after break, any scratch is loss of game, slop does not count.

Most everyone that knows me will in no way gamble with me on a ghost race using above rules "on my home table"..........not even for cheap.

Now, having told you all the above, consider this:

When I first started venturing out to play in public (tournaments mostly), my game suffered BIG TIME. I was getting beat to death by people that did good to beat the ghost 7 - 5.......7 - 6......etc... it was pitiful. It's called pressure and without it your dead in water.

YOU HAVE TO STAY UNDER THE GUN FROM TIME TO TIME.....or you will not hold it together when you are put under the gun.......period.

So, does that mean ghost races at home will not make you better? Not no, but hell no. Playing the ghost in an organized manner is probably the fasted route to improvement baring lessons from someone that actually knows what they are doing. Keys word is "knows"........99% of all instructors are clueless and a waste of money and time but when you do find one that knows how to teach then you have found a gold mine.

Bottom line to me:

I play ghost and when I can beat the living chit out of him I venture out and start putting myself under real pressure here and there.

After you adjust to the pressure.................whew...........guess what?:

All that ORGANIZED practice with the ghost will pay HUGE DIVIDENDS or at least it did with me.

Rake
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
If you're playing anyone who keeps you sitting for much of the time and then when you shoot it's do or die it's another ball game than playing the ghost.



The waiting can be the hardest part.



JC



Re-edit of question...

What if said homebody house ghost buster went and entered in a one pocket event 🤮.

Homepros stroke will flop on the table like a cat does on the road when it gets ran over.

Meow what he gonna do


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
These are my last sets of scores with the 10 ball ghost from last week over a three day period:



11 - 2

11 - 6

11 - 3



15 - 4

15 - 6



25 - 8

25 - 12



I did not lose even one set in those three days. I beat the 9 ball ghost even worse on average.



Rules I use:



Magic rack, BIH after break, any scratch is loss of game, slop does not count.



Most everyone that knows me will in no way gamble with me on a ghost race using above rules "on my home table"..........not even for cheap.



Now, having told you all the above, consider this:



When I first started venturing out to play in public (tournaments mostly), my game suffered BIG TIME. I was getting beat to death by people that did good to beat the ghost 7 - 5.......7 - 6......etc... it was pitiful. It's called pressure and without it your dead in water.



YOU HAVE TO STAY UNDER THE GUN FROM TIME TO TIME.....or you will not hold it together when you are put under the gun.......period.



So, does that mean ghost races at home will not make you better? Not no, but hell no. Playing the ghost in an organized manner is probably the fasted route to improvement baring lessons from someone that actually knows what they are doing. Keys word is "knows"........99% of all instructors are clueless and a waste of money and time but when you do find one that knows how to teach then you have found a gold mine.



Bottom line to me:



I play ghost and when I can beat the living chit out of him I venture out and start putting myself under real pressure here and there.



After you adjust to the pressure.................whew...........guess what?:



All that ORGANIZED practice with the ghost will pay HUGE DIVIDENDS or at least it did with me.



Rake



That’s not beating the ghost that’s murder 1


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

book collector

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BIH after the break against the ghost, is a powerful deceiver.
It only happens when your opponent scratches on his break, so it is less than 10% , probably more like 5 % or less, against high amateurs.
On the other hand , if you don't have a great break, and get out a very high amount of the time, you won't be beating many people.
Play the ghost 3 days in a row without ball in hand , then show us those stats, my guess is you will be shocked at how your ratings fall.
That's probably why you play it that way , either intentionally or not, because you are tremendously better with BIH, than straight off your break.
 

nine_ball6970

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok, lets talk pool. Not once in the history of the world has an unknown top level player walked out of his basement shadows into the light of day. Doesn’t happen no matter how many people say “it’s possible”. There are no New Yorks and Arizona’s.

If being “that guy” means that I’m the guy that calls bullshit when I hear it, yep, that’s me. :thumbup:

There was a guy from South America who nobody knew in the United States. He came here for a couple months and robbed everyone because nobody knew who he was or how well he played. Most people know who he is now. He cashed in the World 9 ball several years ago and was playing amateur tournaments here. Haha
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As one who has played probably a hundred or more 2nd tier tourneys and won ONE...

I can say the time I won, I literally did not miss a ball or a safe or scratch on the break for a day and a half.

It is a damn rare occurrence for a c/b player to play a perfect set, much less 7 of them in a row, over about 24hrs on a pool room.

It is really hard to sit around all day and play 4 perfect matches. Completely different from playing solo in a home gym.
 
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