Wow. That's clear as mud. I think i'm more confused now but that's easy to do. Thanks Bob.Here are the WPA World Standardized Rules:
https://wpapool.com/rules-of-play/#Continuous-Pool
And here is the pertinent text for racking situations:
When the cue ball or fifteenth object ball interferes with racking fourteen balls for a new rack, the following special rules apply. A ball is considered to interfere with the rack if it is within or overlaps the outline of the rack. The referee will state when asked whether a ball interferes with the rack.
(a) If the fifteenth ball was pocketed on the shot that scored the fourteenth ball, all fifteen balls are re-racked.
(b) If both balls interfere, all fifteen balls are re-racked and the cue ball is in hand behind the head string.
(c) If only the object ball interferes, it is placed on the head spot or the center spot if the cue ball blocks the head spot.
(d) If only the cue ball interferes, then it is placed as follows: if the object ball is in front of or on the head string, the cue ball is in hand behind the head string; if the object ball is behind the head string, the cue ball is spotted on the head spot, or on the center spot if the head spot is blocked.
In any case, there is no restriction on which object ball the shooter may play as the first shot of the new rack.
If the cue ball or object ball is barely outside the marked rack area and it is time to rack, the referee should mark the position of the ball to allow it to be accurately replaced if it is accidentally moved by the referee when racking.
There is also a matrix of possibilities in the rules if the text above is not clear. Some like one better than the other.
I worked at the 2000 U.S. Open 14.1
Situation D was discussed . To legally shoot at the object ball on the head string spot, with cue ball in hand in the kitchen , the cue ball would have to be out of the kitchen when contact is made with the object ball .The head string is not in the kitchen.
I think it may make more sense if you start with a specific situation that you are trying to decide on and work through the clauses, crossing out the ones that don't apply. You may prefer to work from the matrix in the full rules.Wow. That's clear as mud. I think i'm more confused now but that's easy to do. Thanks Bob.
Here are the WPA World Standardized Rules:
https://wpapool.com/rules-of-play/#Continuous-Pool
And here is the pertinent text for racking situations:
When the cue ball or fifteenth object ball interferes with racking fourteen balls for a new rack, the following special rules apply. A ball is considered to interfere with the rack if it is within or overlaps the outline of the rack. The referee will state when asked whether a ball interferes with the rack.
(a) If the fifteenth ball was pocketed on the shot that scored the fourteenth ball, all fifteen balls are re-racked.
(b) If both balls interfere, all fifteen balls are re-racked and the cue ball is in hand behind the head string.
(c) If only the object ball interferes, it is placed on the head spot or the center spot if the cue ball blocks the head spot.
(d) If only the cue ball interferes, then it is placed as follows: if the object ball is in front of or on the head string, the cue ball is in hand behind the head string; if the object ball is behind the head string, the cue ball is spotted on the head spot, or on the center spot if the head spot is blocked.
In any case, there is no restriction on which object ball the shooter may play as the first shot of the new rack.
If the cue ball or object ball is barely outside the marked rack area and it is time to rack, the referee should mark the position of the ball to allow it to be accurately replaced if it is accidentally moved by the referee when racking.
There is also a matrix of possibilities in the rules if the text above is not clear. Some like one better than the other.
What I wrote is correct. With cue ball in hand in the Kitchen, and object ball on the head string spot , the cue ball can't legally contact a ball outside the kitchen unless the "Center " of the cue ball is outside the kitchen when contact is made with the object ball.
I believe this has never been the official rule. Let's try an example:... the cue ball can't legally contact a ball outside the kitchen unless the "Center " of the cue ball is outside the kitchen when contact is made with the object ball.
I believe this has never been the official rule. Let's try an example:
An object ball is entirely outside the kitchen near the side cushion. There is a space of 1 inch between its edge and the head string. The player has ball in hand and puts the cue ball near the same side cushion. He shoots the object ball straight into the far corner pocket along that side cushion.
By your ruling that shot is a foul because the center of the cue ball was in the kitchen (by 1/8 inch) when it hit the object ball. Again: I don't think that has ever been the rule.
Nothing in the rules supports your contention. If the center of the object ball designates it’s location as ‘outside’ the kitchen, and the placement of the cue ball’s center is legally designated as ‘inside’ the kitchen, then point of contact should be irrelevant.
BCA General Rules of Pocket Billiards
Page 3- Rule # 38
I'm saying exactly what the BCA rule states.I'm confused. The exception in 38 says that the cue ball does not have to leave the kitchen before contacting a ball that is close to the kitchen. You seem to be saying something very different.
So by that ruling, which is very wrong, the object ball's edge must be about 1.125 inches or more from the headstring for it to be playable. If that is the way the TD set out the rules, he should never be a pool official again.I'm saying exactly what the BCA rule states.
The first part of rule 38 is very clear.
Then the BCA throws in an Exception which contradicts the first part of the rule.
At the 2000 14.1 U.S. Open , this situation was discussed at length before the tournament began. Rule 38 was used without the Exception.
So by that ruling, which is very wrong, the object ball's edge must be about 1.125 inches or more from the headstring for it to be playable. If that is the way the TD set out the rules, he should never be a pool official again.
Is there any chance you misunderstood what was said?
Exceptions contradict what has been said before. That's the nature of exceptions.
You have to include the exception. You can't just throw out the exception. It is part of the rules.... What about the ruling is wrong ?
It's clearly stated in the BCA rules.
You have to include the exception. You can't just throw out the exception. It is part of the rules.
Do you agree with my comment about the legal/illegal targets in the diagram above?