Threading shaft collars
- Thread starter Kim Bye
- Start date
With today's adhesives, by the time collars fail, the cue has endured so much abuse that it's past the point of rescue. Collars falling off won't really matter at that point. I have seen slip fit butt caps explode due to bumper compression, the phenolic literally shredding itself apart but not coming unglued. Short the cue being subjected to extreme heat or soaked in the bathtub, collars should be fine regardless of how they were fitted.
Just done a bunch of shafts that needed repairs, and I noticed some had threaded collars. Epoxy is so strong these days, I can`t really see the need for e mechanical bond on such a small surface, that really never sees any stress.
The only point would be to have peace of mind, knowing that sucker want move.
The only point would be to have peace of mind, knowing that sucker want move.
i just started threading my shaft collars (compression die not live tooling). mostly to keep the collar on while the epoxy is curing. i like it better than using a clamp to keep the collar on.
Or Searing or DZ or Barenbrugge ?
Wood moves, so do bones and ivory.
Epoxy eventually shrinks a little.
.675" 18 or 22 TPI.
I use stock thin black fiber or brass rings sometimes.
They have 5/8 ID.
Most of the joint tubes you get out there have 5/8 ID too.
So, you will need a larger tenon.
Larger tenon makes more room for an insert too if you like to use an insert.
I don't tap them as there is no stock tap for that size.
It's a bastard.
Yes, it sounds like you need to set up your stuff to make it happen. I looked at those 5/8-11 taps, but it seems like a very coarse thread for the job and as you say 5/8" ID is common, wich leaves next to nothing to make the threads in.
With the larger tennon, doesn`t the shaft collar become very thin?
I`ll try making some tomorrow. 22 TPI sounds like a very fine thread. I use 18 TPI on ferrules. Whatdid you settle on? Do you make a shoulder, just like on a ferrule job or do you just thread straight through?
Agreed. I am not knocking anyone's technique, but...These guys do this for a reason. I would add Mike Webb, to this as well. What is the rush? What possibly could an extra day of curing hurt? Nothing will protect a cue from abuse, or extremes, but having peace of mind is worth everything IMO. Just an opinion from the cheap seats.
Joe P
Obviously there are two 'camps' to this issue. I'm not knocking either.
Those that have spent the time and money to do threaded collars will swear by them.
I guess it does come down to one's perceived comfort level.
I don't thread collars and sleep quite well. Today's epoxies are incredible.
They make cue-making what it is today. Again, it don't come apart unless I want it to.
I prefer clamps to hold the collars in place during the cure period.
I believe that it more closely simulates the pressure that would be realized with the cue connected.
JMO
The debate about 'to thread or not to thread' is not about cure time.
Those that do, believe it makes the connection stronger, less prone to failure.
I won't question their beliefs. They believe what they believe. That's their reasoning.
I am blessed with a different view and reasoning.
In the act of threading a tenon you are creating a 'minor diameter'.
The wood has been removed in the thread to a depth determined by the 'pitch' or TPI.
What started out as a 5/8" dia. tenon has now been reduced (in the thread) to a diameter
that is starting to approach 1/2". To be honest, this would keep me up at night.
In the attempt to make the collar connection or bonding stronger,
the integrity of the jnt 'construction' has been compromised.
JMO
Those that have spent the time and money to do threaded collars will swear by them.
I guess it does come down to one's perceived comfort level.
I don't thread collars and sleep quite well. Today's epoxies are incredible.
They make cue-making what it is today. Again, it don't come apart unless I want it to.
I prefer clamps to hold the collars in place during the cure period.
I believe that it more closely simulates the pressure that would be realized with the cue connected.
JMO
The debate about 'to thread or not to thread' is not about cure time.
Those that do, believe it makes the connection stronger, less prone to failure.
I won't question their beliefs. They believe what they believe. That's their reasoning.
I am blessed with a different view and reasoning.
In the act of threading a tenon you are creating a 'minor diameter'.
The wood has been removed in the thread to a depth determined by the 'pitch' or TPI.
What started out as a 5/8" dia. tenon has now been reduced (in the thread) to a diameter
that is starting to approach 1/2". To be honest, this would keep me up at night.
In the attempt to make the collar connection or bonding stronger,
the integrity of the jnt 'construction' has been compromised.
JMO
I don't knock anyone's techniques. The most important factor is, and always be, take the time and really educate yourself about the glue you use. I don't care what it is. If you use stock phenolic. The inside is shinny. Scuff it up and well too. That means. Go to the plumbing section of Home depot and buy round wire brushes. They have 5/8 and 3/4. Put a section of tubing in your lathe and run it in reverse. It will be nicely scuffed and not shinny anymore. Nice scrathes for the glue to sit in. If you use a parting tool? Sand both sides for proper adhesion. Pretty simple rules. Myself. I buy undersized i.d. tubes and bore them to the size I want.
Last edited:
Both shouldered.
I've never seen a tenon break.
I still keep mine at .675". More work as I have to make a jig to hold the ring pieces and bore them to the right size.
Seen plenty of joint collars become loose and/or develop gap at the bottom.
I thread everything but joint collars. For those I made up a bunch of delrin joint protectors male and female. These are my clamps when glueing collars. I dont like the look of a threaded collar from the face of a joint unless you shoulder them, and in that case your tennon is getting quite small in diameter. The only way to avoid that is to do what Joey does and use a bastard sized thread. If you do that then you have eliminated the nominal sized 5/8 tenon. So all your rings are now odd sized bore.
The scuffing of the interior surface is a must.
Epoxy doesn't adhere well to shiny smooth surfaces any better than clear-coat does.
You want to 'break' the shiny and expose porosity in the mtrl.
There are many ways to do this. Point is, break the shiny.
I take this a step further. Final step is to run a tap thru the hole.
IE, go measure a 5/8 tap. You'll find it to be larger than .625".
What the tap does is to provide micro threads within the collar, (locking key ways).
The tenon remains at full dia. and unscathed.
Anyone in the world is entitled to construct their jnts. and collars in the manner they see fit.
Obviously there are many ways and examples. Think YOUR methods thru and own them.
Please don't adapt a method just because you read it on AZ. KNOW why it's being used.
Update: An afterthought led me to look at a 16x1.5mm tap, knowing it was slightly larger than 5/8".
The 16mm tap is .638" dia. Cuts a nice thread also. My 5/8 tap is going back in the set.
Last edited:
Using a 5/8" tap for making ridges is a smart thing KJ.
I'm gonna do some experimenting this weekend.
I was thinking that live threading, but only going 60% or so of the thread pitch depth, would be enough to make a thread that actually screws on, but does not cut so deep into the tennon or ringwork.
I can try to post some pictures when I get the time to play around.
I'm gonna do some experimenting this weekend.
I was thinking that live threading, but only going 60% or so of the thread pitch depth, would be enough to make a thread that actually screws on, but does not cut so deep into the tennon or ringwork.
I can try to post some pictures when I get the time to play around.
Why do you assume it has anything to do with time?