AccuStats Netflix Style Streaming Service - Groundbreaking

troi · Jan 10, 2018

I'm very happy to support AccuStats and have subscribed to their service. For the price of what one may typically spend on lunch one day, you can have access to the one of the best resources in pool and billiards.

I do hope they get the older vids up there, can't get enough of them.

skip100 · Jan 10, 2018

I'd be interested to hear more about piracy of Accu-Stats DVDs. Given the target audience, personally I find it hard to believe this is happening on a large scale or that it substantially erodes their sales.

Positively Ralf · Jan 10, 2018

This is a great idea and I hope everyone enjoys it. I'll get my subscription when they add other stuff from their library, like the straight pool runs with commentary.

Icon of Sin · Jan 10, 2018

skip100 said:
I'd be interested to hear more about piracy of Accu-Stats DVDs. Given the target audience, personally I find it hard to believe this is happening on a large scale or that it substantially erodes their sales.

The fact that they mentioned it to me as that was one of their reasons for going this route shows the impact that it has had on them. I just don't think they realize that it could potentially be worse in the new model.

POVPOOL · Jan 10, 2018

Icon of Sin said:
I agree. Accu-Stats does put out an excellent product, but there are a bunch of YouTube channels out there that also put out some very very good content. Channels like GeniPool, POVPOOL, Fast Lenny and some others. Good content and original content.

While these channels do not cover the TV table of the majors like Accu-Stats does, the do cover some of the non-TV tables and some events that normally would not have any video coverage. Not amateur stuff, either. Pro events with Pros playing it out. Really enjoyed all the West Coast Swing matches that POV has uploaded in the last couple months.

On that note, I should mention that POV Pool has also launched a 'Netflix' style subscription service within the same price range. Although our vault of archives is not as deep as Accu-Stats, I feel that we have arrived at a juncture where people deserve access premium or specially selected content by its creators for a nominal fee. I fully support Accu-Stats and likewise hope that we too have made an acceptable business decision.

Like Accu-Stats, our channel is also powered by Vimeo. In fact, it's really just matter of time before any streamer with decent content will be vying for the same piece of the pie.

By the way, when you mention 'geniepool'; I am frankly a little insulted. I consider these 'compilation' channels, "youtube pirates" who, do nothing but steal other's work, fail to issue any credit to the creators and what's worse, go to great lengths to 're-brand' and make it look like it's their content to start with all the while earning exponentially more than we do on YouTube as well. There are scores of viewers of these channels who are grateful to genipool and channels like this but honestly, they have done nothing but steal and monetize on youtube; in fact, their subscriptions far surpass the creators merely because of the selection of content which is never acquired with permission. There are over a dozen of these channels on YouTube. Geniepool has very little 'original' content... possibly 2% of it is their produced works.

I actually need a reality check on this because, even after bringing this to the attention of fellow streamers who's content have also been kyped by these individuals; they do very little to have this content blocked or removed. As if believing that, it's good promotion for them.

Positively Ralf · Jan 10, 2018

POVPOOL said:
By the way, when you mention 'geniepool'; I am frankly a little insulted. I consider these 'compilation' channels, "youtube pirates" who, do nothing but steal other's work, fail to issue any credit to the creators and what's worse, go to great lengths to 're-brand' and make it look like it's their content to start with all the while earning exponentially more than we do on YouTube as well. There are scores of viewers of these channels who are grateful to genipool and channels like this but honestly, they have done nothing but steal and monetize on youtube; in fact, their subscriptions far surpass the creators merely because of the selection of content which is never acquired with permission. There are over a dozen of these channels on YouTube. Geniepool has very little 'original' content... possibly 2% of it is their produced works.

I actually need a reality check on this because, even after bringing this to the attention of fellow streamers who's content have also been kyped by these individuals; they do very little to have this content blocked or removed. As if believing that, it's good promotion for them.

Didn't they get flagged and reinstated the next day because they proved the videos they have were their own(iirc they taped the matches with a camcorder at the DCC) and the Chinese 8 ball matches can't be considered copyrighted material because it was on free public access tv over in china?

Maybe I missed something else?

POVPOOL · Jan 10, 2018

Whatever the case may be on that, the fact remains that, Geniepool and channels like this were built on the foundation of taking others' content and monetizing it without permission.

Cornerman · Jan 10, 2018

Cardigan Kid said:
Yes, absolutely.
I also need to get off my duff and do that. That would add to the comfort of it all. Also good idea in allowing a download of the DVD matches you purchased. That would be a nice option with the subscription.

So I just fired up the subscription to give it a go, and I selected the infamous match from the 2016 U.S. Open between Jayson Shaw and Ko Pin Yi, where Shaw makes a killer comeback (if I can remember correctly, since I watched it on the stream a year and a half ago).

My first reaction was Wow to the HD video, it's unreal clarity 1080p and the stream is super smooth. I'm 30 minutes in and can't wait to get to the big foot 10 ball matches from the last derby.

I think they could use a better organization of the video titles to different pages/categories, but all in all, the video quality is most important and I have no complaints.

I can even see the detail on AZ's Cornerman's patriots hat in the background!

My buddy’s first live USOpen Match was this match. He flew in and sat in the front row with me I tried to to tell him that US Open matches weren’t always like this, but apparently they are!!!

Freddie <~~~ Jayson fan

skip100 · Jan 10, 2018

Icon of Sin said:
The fact that they mentioned it to me as that was one of their reasons for going this route shows the impact that it has had on them. I just don't think they realize that it could potentially be worse in the new model.

Clearly any instance of piracy is going to wrankle a content creator. My question is about how prevalent it actually is (possibly measurable), and the impact on sales (much more complicated).

Piracy on the internet is not new - Napster is almost 20 years old. In fact piracy has been declining as streaming services have provided easy access to content people want to watch but are unwilling to pay high prices for. For instance, old pool matches...

ShortBusRuss · Jan 10, 2018

POVPOOL said:
By the way, when you mention 'geniepool'; I am frankly a little insulted.

Ok, feel free to be insulted.

1. In reference to your comments about "premium content"... There IS no premium content in American pool. You either have garbage barbox tournaments, or you have European players destroying American players, with one or two exceptions, and with weak commentary to boot. In a game (9 ball) that is too easy for pro standards.

2. With almost no exception, the best US stream content, with games that truly challenge the players, (straight pool, 3 cushion nationals, rotation) are FREE. And there is TONS of free international content in games MUCH tougher than 9 ball.. (Snooker, Chinese 8 Ball, Filipino Rotation, etc..) The fact that American streamers are complaining about their income being "stolen" for such substandard games shows the perennial sense of entitlement that we Americans can have at times.

3. Paid streamers in the US are targeting an aging population of pool fans who have money to waste, and so spend it frivolously on substandard content. (Barbox 9 ball, etc..) Because of the poor state of American pool, this is all that is available to stream. You should thank your lucky stars anybody is paying to watch barbox pool. I know my friends here in Germany probably would laugh at the idea of Americans actually paying to watch pool on a 7 foot table.

4. I would dare say any intelligent streamer is streaming out of love for the game, not for love of money, because anyone with any business sense knows this is a market with basically zero entry costs. Got a $700.00 camera? Check.. Got an internet connection? Check. Got a business owner desperate to let his customer base know he exists? Check.

5. I am embracing my inner shit-disturber in the run up to Derby, giving in to my naturally aggressive personality to put myself in the right competitive mindset, so don't take anything I say above to heart.. (Even though it's all true..)

6. Mwah hah hah. U Mad, Bro?

Short Bus Russ

POVPOOL · Jan 10, 2018

ShortBusRuss said:
Ok, feel free to be insulted.

1. In reference to your comments about "premium content"... There IS no premium content in American pool. You either have garbage barbox tournaments, or you have European players destroying American players, with one or two exceptions, and with weak commentary to boot. In a game (9 ball) that is too easy for pro standards.

2. With almost no exception, the best US stream content, with games that truly challenge the players, (straight pool, 3 cushion nationals, rotation) are FREE. And there is TONS of free international content in games MUCH tougher than 9 ball.. (Snooker, Chinese 8 Ball, Filipino Rotation, etc..) The fact that American streamers are complaining about their income being "stolen" for such substandard games shows the perennial sense of entitlement that we Americans can have at times.

3. Paid streamers in the US are targeting an aging population of pool fans who have money to waste, and so spend it frivolously on substandard content. (Barbox 9 ball, etc..) Because of the poor state of American pool, this is all that is available to stream. You should thank your lucky stars anybody is paying to watch barbox pool. I know my friends here in Germany probably would laugh at the idea of Americans actually paying to watch pool on a 7 foot table.

4. I would dare say any intelligent streamer is streaming out of love for the game, not for love of money, because anyone with any business sense knows this is a market with basically zero entry costs. Got a $700.00 camera? Check.. Got an internet connection? Check. Got a business owner desperate to let his customer base know he exists? Check.

5. I am embracing my inner shit-disturber in the run up to Derby, giving in to my naturally aggressive personality to put myself in the right competitive mindset, so don't take anything I say above to heart.. (Even though it's all true..)

6. Mwah hah hah. U Mad, Bro?

Short Bus Russ

Who can be mad at ignorance? I do, however, appreciate your perspective.

azhousepro · Jan 10, 2018

This is a conversation that I have briefly had with Daniel in the past. At the time, I tried to explain that it came down to business models. His model is to stream the tournament and then try to monetize that content. My business model was to cover a tournament on the promoter's dime, and then continue to promote that tourney after the fact with the video content, so that it can grow larger.

I have no need to monetize the video, because I was paid "up front" by the promoter. If someone "pirates" our video off of Vimeo and puts it on their own channel, they are just promoting that event in another location. Yes, they may monetize that content that they "stole" and make a little bit on it, but I wasn't going to make anything from it on Vimeo. Why would it bother me if they did?

While I realize that you can't make a comfortable living in the pool world by just getting paid by the promoter, I have other avenues of monetizing what I do in the pool world and monetizing video content is not one of them.

Scott Lee · Jan 10, 2018

Mike...Without having to divulge numbers...about what percent of AzBrs are Gold Members? It's incredible to me that for TEN CENTS a day anyone can support this site as a Gold Member (which has many benefits), which is the premier place for everything information-wise for pool on the planet! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

AzHousePro said:
This is a conversation that I have briefly had with Daniel in the past. At the time, I tried to explain that it came down to business models. His model is to stream the tournament and then try to monetize that content. My business model was to cover a tournament on the promoter's dime, and then continue to promote that tourney after the fact with the video content, so that it can grow larger.

I have no need to monetize the video, because I was paid "up front" by the promoter. If someone "pirates" our video off of Vimeo and puts it on their own channel, they are just promoting that event in another location. Yes, they may monetize that content that they "stole" and make a little bit on it, but I wasn't going to make anything from it on Vimeo. Why would it bother me if they did?

While I realize that you can't make a comfortable living in the pool world by just getting paid by the promoter, I have other avenues of monetizing what I do in the pool world and monetizing video content is not one of them.

QuietStorm · Jan 11, 2018

Scott Lee said:
Mike...Without having to divulge numbers...about what percent of AzBrs are Gold Members? It's incredible to me that for TEN CENTS a day anyone can support this site as a Gold Member (which has many benefits), which is the premier place for everything information-wise for pool on the planet! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Ok, I'm sold!

BeiberLvr · Jan 11, 2018

ShortBusRuss said:
I don't mean to be "that guy", but this is basically a last-ditch effort to squeeze money out of a media library that has been decimated by piracy.

For that reason, it will last a few years, and then be gone. Or, it will still be there, but fewer and fewer people using it until the income is less than the hosting costs..

Given the slow death that pool in America is facing, and the fact that Accu-Stats mostly caters to American pool fans, I am expecting that Accu-Stats days are numbered. It might be a REAL good time for Accu-Stats to start looking into what it would cost to pay for commentary in different languages, so they could sell the videos to non-English speakers..

For that matter, given the seemingly total lack of interest in the Derby City Classic forum on here, with it being a few short days away, I am wondering how much longer that tournament will last. It seems that the hotel fills up quick every year, and the tournament fields are certainly consistently large, so maybe this is much ado about nothing.

Short Bus Russ

I believe most of Accu-Stats sales are from Asian countries. That's what I remember hearing anyways.

BeiberLvr · Jan 11, 2018

Cardigan Kid said:
I think this is groundbreaking for our sport.
A netflix for pool.

Haven't seen that much discussion surrounding the topic though....

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=466638

Is anyone subscribing to this?
With the vault that accustats has under it's wing, the possibilities are endless.

I also wanted to make a commitment to watching more pool matches this year, and with this subscription, it will be like a gym membership...you paid for it so you better use it and get your money's worth. :thumbup:

To Oldzilla, will the library eventually be expanded to include past Derby matches/Bigfoot matches? Or is it just new tournaments going forward?

I'm firing up my subscription tonight and we will see how it goes.

yeah I made a thread about it before oldzilla did

Icon of Sin · Jan 11, 2018

POVPOOL said:
Who can be mad at ignorance? I do, however, appreciate your perspective.

I'm sorry you feel insulted based on my initial comment. That was not my intent.

I have no idea how that channel got their start. I do know that they have had matches from the Worlds and everything from the Mosconi in previous years. Those are 2 things I would not get to see if it wasn't for their channel.

The last year he recorded matches at DCC himself and uploaded them. Some great matches were in their and I hope he does it this year too.

As far as Youtube Pool channels go, yours is the one I frequent the most. One of my favorite matches to watch over and over is Morra vs. Bustamante 10 ball from Hard Times.

I can see where you are coming from, as you are in the business of providing this material to the consumers, and as a pool player I'm sure you can see where some of us are coming from as well.

Best of luck on the new Streaming Model.

ideologist · Jan 11, 2018

Cardigan Kid said:
This is certainly a valid post by you, sir.
I think overall, it's a convenience issue for me.
I have a pretty good sized shelf filled with accustats dvds and I revisit them every how and then, but I have to be in front of a tv with a dvd player and in my life that is extremely rare these days with work, family, pool paying stuff, etc.

So here is a streaming subscription service and something that I can catch part of a match on my phone while some down time between calls at work, then catch another part on my tablet while waiting to pick my son up from practice, and then finish it up by utilizing an Amazon fire stick on my hd tv in the basement while practicing.

That was a bit of a run on, but my point is the viewing world is changing. The Chalky Sticks app is on the right direction in that it allows for a variety of pool games across different channels, but those matches are from YouTube and not on demand.

Also, I always felt the accu stats matches were very good quality in camera angles and the HD stuff, so taking in a match is a pleasant experience.

Up to now the Europeans had a subscription service with the euro tour and I'm sure Pat has learned that there is a business model there, with the sports growing interest in Europe. Now he doesn't have to worry about creating PAL format DVDs that play over there. In ten years, hosting services will only get cheaper and streaming will only get faster.

This could work out for accustats. But your take is a valid and it could be a last gasp of a dying sport.

New ad campaign:

"YOU BOUGHT IT ALL BEFORE, NOW BUY IT AGAIN MONTHLY!"

Taxi · Jan 11, 2018

ugotactionTX said:
As much as I like their current offerings... I'm way more interested in the "vintage" stuff. I really hope they expand their library quickly.

I began subscribing once the recent U.S. Open was available, and the quality is as good as anyone can expect. For the first time in my memory, I can actually tell the numbered balls apart when they're all on the table. With those pink 4 balls and orange 5 balls, that hasn't always been so easy.

I also subscribe because I want to support Accu-Stats, both out of gratitude for what they've done and for what they can do going forward. Pat is a mensch.

That said, I wish they'd not only get those older matches up faster, they also need to offer ALL the recent matches that they live streamed. I'm thinking particularly of Billy Thorpe's first match in the recent Open 9-ball, where he torched the world's #1 ranked player (Wu Jq) by something like 11 to 1. For the life of me I can't figure out why that isn't yet up on VIMEO, since it was on the TV table and it was live streamed at the time.

AtLarge · Jan 11, 2018

Taxi said:
... That said, I wish they'd not only get those older matches up faster, they also need to offer ALL the recent matches that they live streamed. I'm thinking particularly of Billy Thorpe's first match in the recent Open 9-ball, where he torched the world's #1 ranked player (Wu Jq) by something like 11 to 1. For the life of me I can't figure out why that isn't yet up on VIMEO, since it was on the TV table and it was live streamed at the time.

Accu-Stats streamed 39 matches at the 2017 US Open 9-Ball Championship, but they were not all "full production" matches. The matches lasted from 10:30 am to, sometimes, well after midnight. Some of the crew gets a break during the matches that are not full production. In the past, I believe they offered DVDs of only the full production matches, so perhaps they are also doing that for the matches put on Vimeo, which currently number 23 from that event.

The Thorpe d. Wu 11-1 match was not full production.

AccuStats Netflix Style Streaming Service - Groundbreaking

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