can you gents explain to me what a compression joint is and its benefits if any .i.e. http://www.billiardbills.com/custom-cues/ the 2nd cue down.
thank's paul..
thank's paul..
compression joint
- Thread starter nipper
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Cues
My best guess is its typo and its should say SS piloted joint.
Compression fitting is the normally terminology, or at least that's what comes up when doing a search online looking for compression joint comes out compression fitting.....
My best guess is its typo and its should say SS piloted joint.
Compression fitting is the normally terminology, or at least that's what comes up when doing a search online looking for compression joint comes out compression fitting.....
All of the piloted shafts into steel joints are listed as compression on that web page. I would think the more common term would be piloted joint also. I do know of one big name maker that has made what would br considered a compression joint though. So a compression joint would exert a small amount of back pressure against each face of the joint when tightened to greatly diminish the chance of the shaft loosening up.
Alan
Phelps Custom Cues
Alan
Phelps Custom Cues
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IMHO, the pilot has no influence on the 'hit' of a cue.
There is very little if any compressing of the pilot being done.
It wouldn't matter anyway because it's contact has very little surface area.
A true pilot's purpose remains the same; to provide the shaft 'stricter' alignment.
There is very little if any compressing of the pilot being done.
It wouldn't matter anyway because it's contact has very little surface area.
A true pilot's purpose remains the same; to provide the shaft 'stricter' alignment.
Mike Pancerny can make a piloted compression joint as well as anybody in the world, as far as I'm concerned.
These days the terminology seems to mean the pilot is making full contact with the walls of the stainless joint; this adaptation is probably because lots of piloted shafts do not. I'm of the opinion that anytime you have hollow or dead space at the joint it does effect the hit. 
Mario
Mario
These days the terminology seems to mean the pilot is making full contact with the walls of the stainless joint; this adaptation is probably because lots of piloted shafts do not. I'm of the opinion that anytime you have hollow or dead space at the joint it does effect the hit.
Mario
Absolutely correct... On all counts
Compression joint
LOL well it must be one of those things made up just for cue makers.
The rest of the world the words compression joint doesn't seem to exist.
And seems to be translated as compressing fitting.
On a cue the only thing being compressed is when the cue ball is being struck or hit.
There is no compression of stainless when the cue is being tightened nor is the brass being compressed .
Because its being hand tightened and we cannot apply anything near that force needed to compress brass or SS
And if anyone says there is please prove it.....
Oil compresses 1% for the first 1000 PSI
So how much is that joint compressing when its being screwed together by hand is zero......
Some cue maker wants to call that a compression joint fine, but its not.
It is a piloted joint even though IMO the pin should be free floating.
I am a fairly strong person and on a new dial Snap On torque wrench with a socket I can grip the most force ( Twist ) I can apply is about 5 foot pounds of torque.
Sorry but five pounds of torque is not going to compress brass or SS steel jointed cue.
LOL well it must be one of those things made up just for cue makers.
The rest of the world the words compression joint doesn't seem to exist.
And seems to be translated as compressing fitting.
On a cue the only thing being compressed is when the cue ball is being struck or hit.
There is no compression of stainless when the cue is being tightened nor is the brass being compressed .
Because its being hand tightened and we cannot apply anything near that force needed to compress brass or SS
And if anyone says there is please prove it.....
Oil compresses 1% for the first 1000 PSI
So how much is that joint compressing when its being screwed together by hand is zero......
Some cue maker wants to call that a compression joint fine, but its not.
It is a piloted joint even though IMO the pin should be free floating.
I am a fairly strong person and on a new dial Snap On torque wrench with a socket I can grip the most force ( Twist ) I can apply is about 5 foot pounds of torque.
Sorry but five pounds of torque is not going to compress brass or SS steel jointed cue.
Then wouldn't a flat faced joint hit best... no air space.These days the terminology seems to mean the pilot is making full contact with the walls of the stainless joint; this adaptation is probably because lots of piloted shafts do not. I'm of the opinion that anytime you have hollow or dead space at the joint it does effect the hit.
Mario
These tiny brass pilots don't even touch the inside of the shaft collars on most cues.
A compression joint has the insert set away from the face of the shaft so it extends to the bottom of the butt joint and hits the sides as well. Usually just an extension of the shaft wood. To the OP this is what most would call a compression joint
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MMike,
I don't think anyone said the medium in compression was steel or brass, that would seem rather silly with hand tightening. Although a brass compression fitting compresses a brass ring if I remember right.
I also didn't coin the word compression joint, just tried to explain the mechanics of what I had seen as a different way of screwing a shaft to a butt.It may have not been the greatest explanation, I'm much more of an electrical engineer than a mechanical engineer.
Just for the record, the only joint that I use is flat faced. I like as much surface area touching face to face as I can get, but that's just me.
Alan
I don't think anyone said the medium in compression was steel or brass, that would seem rather silly with hand tightening. Although a brass compression fitting compresses a brass ring if I remember right.
I also didn't coin the word compression joint, just tried to explain the mechanics of what I had seen as a different way of screwing a shaft to a butt.It may have not been the greatest explanation, I'm much more of an electrical engineer than a mechanical engineer.
Just for the record, the only joint that I use is flat faced. I like as much surface area touching face to face as I can get, but that's just me.
Alan
Not saying better or best just saying dead spaces in joints effect the feel of the hit. Flat face joint can have a 1" pin and the shaft can have a 1 1/2" depth...that 1/2 of dead space has an effect on how the hit feels...this all just my opinion, not saying any joint type is better than any other.
Mario
Hi Alan
I was a boiler operator and a boiler instructor in Philly PA US Naval ship yard .
I was also a boiler operator on board the ship I was stationed on .
You are not going to be a operator or a instructor with out knowledge of valves and fitting...
There is no such thing as a compression joint .....................
Do a search yourself .
Its like me tell you that I have some tempered steel that is mad at me ....
Dear MMike,
Because you are not familiar with the term 'compression joint' as it applies to cue construction
doesn't mean the term isn't valid. Actually, it's usage and definition have been around longer than you have.
I know a little of plumbing also so I've thought of an analogy that may help you understand the application.
Using a copper compression fitting that you are likely familiar with, visualize the ferrule being compressed
around the copper tubing to make the seal. This is a similar concept as the shaft's 'pilot' being compressed
by the interior sides of the jnt-collar. The pilot is generally comprised of wood; shaft wood. It compresses.
No, the stainless isn't compressing nor is the brass. The term applies to the wood of the pilot.
HTHs, KJ
Mike, It's the wood of the pilot "compressing" not the brass or stainless...
Interesting discussion. I did not look at the cue referenced but due to the nature of the stress-strain relationship ALL joints experience compression ... except if you leave them loose.
I have often wondered how much compression (strain) exists in my Lambros Ultra joint when tightened. Also in the Layani conical joint.
Dave
A couple of equations could get you that info but it would be relative to torque applied.
If you have a means of measuring the torque then I believe you could determine compression in both configurations.
Taper and radius will also need to be known. Mike may already have some info for you but again, relative to torque.