Met a friendly fellow AZer in Florida

BC21

BC21

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I'm in Clearwater FL this week on vacation. First off, it's a beautiful place to visit, highly recommended. Anyhow, while here I wanted to meet a fellow AZer and hit some balls around. Anytime I'm out town I like to visit local poolhalls and play a little pool, usually by myself unless someone comes over and asks if I'm looking to play for money. This time I reached out to Cookieman, Dave Stem, since he lives in this area. I figured Dave was a good player, and I had no doubts he would be good company in person.

Long story short.....he brought game and I didn't. We played 9ball, one hole, and 8ball, and had some good conversation. It was all friendly, no gambling. In the 9ball we broke even, each winning 9 games. Then we switched to one pocket, which is my favorite game. It's the first time in a long while that I've played one pocket with no money on the line, and I'm glad for it. Dave is very good player and doesn't make many mistakes. I couldn't do anything right, or anything smart. He beat me about 7 or 8 in a row before I finally won 2 games.

I was struggling for sure, and the harder I tried the worse I played. There are plenty of excuses I could use....lack of sleep, food, etc.... or the absence of money on the line... But truth is, Dave played well and I did not.

After winning 2 one pocket games in a row, I figured switching to 8ball might kick me into gear. I figured wrong. Can't remember the last time I got beat 5-0. I had opportunities to run racks that would normally be gimmies, and I flubbed them up in one way another each time. Regardless, I had a good time and learned exactly what I thought I'd learn.... Dave is a great guy and he can play pool. I wish I had played better, but shit happens. Good shoot'n Cookieman. :thumbup:
 
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bbb

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Glad you had a good time Brian even if your play was not up to your expected level
I have spoken to dave a few times and he was very friendly
I hope to meet him and you one day to play some and have a good time...:thumbup:
 
BC21

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bbb said:
Glad you had a good time Brian even if your play was not up to your expected level
I have spoken to dave a few times and he was very friendly
I hope to meet him and you one day to play some and have a good time...:thumbup:
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I'd love that also. But if I play that bad again I think I'll just sell my cues and take up something less humiliating. Lol. Well, probably not.... I've played worse and still have my cues.
 
Buzzard II

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Showing grace in defeat shows just how much class you really have. A lesson that many detractors here could learn from.

God bless, love the book
 
BC21

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Buzzard II said:
Showing grace in defeat shows just how much class you really have. A lesson that many detractors here could learn from.

God bless, love the book
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Thanks. I appreciate that. Playing bad is no fun. Losing is no fun. But it's tolerable when the company is good, and when losing costs nothing but a little pride.

Pool is one of those things that requires 100% focus. Dave and I both missed some easy shots, but he was able to pull himself together, and he started playing pretty well. I remained in a nonchalant halfass mode of focus from shot to shot. I was disappointed in my game. I mean, nobody likes to feel like they're struggling, but it happens.

Still had a great time in Clearwater. A week in such a paradise is always a good thing. And a few hours of bad pool certainly didn't stay with me any longer than the short 10min drive back to the condo from the poolhall. Later that night my girlfriend asked how the pool game went.... I laughed and said, "Terrible....I played like a turd." Then my brother smiled and said, "Yeah, right...so how much did you win?" I told him it was just friendly play, no gambling, and that it is was probably a good thing because turds don't usually win. They all laughed and that was that.

Then I posted this thread real quick to give Cookieman his due respect, and to show that despite the petty differences and ugly words we often engage in here on AZ, we can all get along just fine in person.
 
B

Boxcar

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BC21 said:
Thanks. I appreciate that. Playing bad is no fun. Losing is no fun. But it's tolerable when the company is good, and when losing costs nothing but a little pride.

Pool is one of those things that requires 100% focus. Dave and I both missed some easy shots, but he was able to pull himself together, and he started playing pretty well. I remained in a nonchalant halfass mode of focus from shot to shot. I was disappointed in my game. I mean, nobody likes to feel like they're struggling, but it happens.

Still had a great time in Clearwater. A week in such a paradise is always a good thing. And a few hours of bad pool certainly didn't stay with me any longer than the short 10min drive back to the condo from the poolhall. Later that night my girlfriend asked how the pool game went.... I laughed and said, "Terrible....I played like a turd." Then my brother smiled and said, "Yeah, right...so how much did you win?" I told him it was just friendly play, no gambling, and that it is was probably a good thing because turds don't usually win. They all laughed and that was that.

Then I posted this thread real quick to give Cookieman his due respect, and to show that despite the petty differences and ugly words we often engage in here on AZ, we can all get along just fine in person.
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So, in light of this effusive display of brotherly love and convivial congeniality, did our Good Friend Cookieman quietly mention when "The Book" is coming out?
 
B

bbb

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Boxcar said:
So, in light of this effusive display of brotherly love and convivial congeniality, did our Good Friend Cookieman quietly mention when "The Book" is coming out?
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Brian
I would ignore this post.
Imo
The poster has no sincere interest and just wants to bring up old issues
Jmho
Icbw
 
BC21

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Boxcar said:
So, in light of this effusive display of brotherly love and convivial congeniality, did our Good Friend Cookieman quietly mention when "The Book" is coming out?
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CTE came up in conversation briefly, maybe 3 or 4 minutes total in the 4 or 5 hours we played. I didn't ask about the book because I really don't care. I did ask if Stan was alright, since I haven't seen any posts from him or any of his peeps in a while. I was glad to hear he's doing fine, healthy as ever. I also said I would buy his CTE book, not so much because I want to learn it, but because I think it's good to support fellow pool players and the products they develop to help others improve or learn the game.

We also talked about another book that I'll plug right now for a friend named Gene Robinson. Gene was once a great player, and still plays strong today. He's in his late 60's, quit playing pool years ago, but started back up within the last year or so. He was a pro player back in the late 1980's, early 90's. But he is also a craps teacher who was featured on an A & E television a few years ago. His craps book was published by the New York Times. He also wrote a pool book titled, "The 10 Basic Shots of Pool", but it isn't available yet. The pool book has a very impressive list of endorsements from great players that Gene has known over the years, like Earl Strickland, Buddy Hall, Nick Varner, etc.... Anyway, for anybody interesting in playing craps the right way, check this out.....

http://thecrapsteacher.com/
 
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Boxcar

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BC21 said:
CTE came up in conversation briefly, maybe 3 or 4 minutes total in the 4 or 5 hours we played. I didn't ask about the book because I really don't care. I did ask if Stan was alright, since I haven't seen any posts from him or any of his peeps in a while. I was glad to hear he's doing fine, healthy as ever. I also said I would buy his CTE book, not so much because I want to learn it, but because I think it's good to support fellow pool players and the products they develop to help others improve or learn the game.

We also talked about another book that I'll plug right now for a friend named Gene Robinson. Gene was once a great player, and still plays strong today. He's in his late 60's, quit playing pool years ago, but started back up within the last year or so. He was a pro player back in the late 1980's, early 90's. But he is also a craps teacher who was featured on an A & E television a few years ago. His craps book was published by the New York Times. He also wrote a pool book titled, "The 10 Basic Shots of Pool", but it isn't available yet. The pool book has a very impressive list of endorsements from great players that Gene has known over the years, like Earl Strickland, Buddy Hall, Nick Varner, etc.... Anyway, for anybody interesting in playing craps the right way, check this out.....

http://thecrapsteacher.com/
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Thank you, Good Sir! I'm glad to know that Cookieman and Stan are healthy.

Were you concerned about the Covid statistics here in Fla.? Did you see any signs of business decline due to the threat? Has Cookieman's business suffered?
 
BC21

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Boxcar said:
Thank you, Good Sir! I'm glad to know that Cookieman and Stan are healthy.

Were you concerned about the Covid statistics here in Fla.? Did you see any signs of business decline due to the threat? Has Cookieman's business suffered?
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Covid didn't look anymore threatening in Clearwater than it looks in WV. More people wearing masks though in FL was all I noticed. I wasn't concerned at all.
 
Dan White

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BC21 said:
http://thecrapsteacher.com/
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My father wrote a book about craps as it is a game he loved to play. I think it was one of the gambling book publishers. They paid him to write what was really more of a thick pamphlet.

The reality is that no bet in the whole casino pays out at the rate it is supposed to for a fair game (unless you count placing odds on a pass line bet, which does pay out fair, but you have to play an unfair wager to be able to place odds). Because of this, it doesn't matter how you place your bets (ie, what system you use). You are going to lose in the long run.

Having said that, there are methods that maximize your odds so that you lose more slowly and also allow you to maximize your winnings when on a "hot streak." People remember the hot streaks but forget the hours of choppy play where you lose all that hot streak money back.

Sorry, had to go there!
 
Tony_in_MD

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Hot streak, yep. Turned 20 dollars to 640 in 15 minutes on a hot crap table in Vegas 10 years ago.

Of course that same night, the blackjack table was not good to me.

Dan White said:
My father wrote a book about craps as it is a game he loved to play. I think it was one of the gambling book publishers. They paid him to write what was really more of a thick pamphlet.

The reality is that no bet in the whole casino pays out at the rate it is supposed to for a fair game (unless you count placing odds on a pass line bet, which does pay out fair, but you have to play an unfair wager to be able to place odds). Because of this, it doesn't matter how you place your bets (ie, what system you use). You are going to lose in the long run.

Having said that, there are methods that maximize your odds so that you lose more slowly and also allow you to maximize your winnings when on a "hot streak." People remember the hot streaks but forget the hours of choppy play where you lose all that hot streak money back.

Sorry, had to go there!
Click to expand...
 
Dan White

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Tony_in_MD said:
Hot streak, yep. Turned 20 dollars to 640 in 15 minutes on a hot crap table in Vegas 10 years ago.

Of course that same night, the blackjack table was not good to me.
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Funny. I was 19 and snuck onto a craps table in AC where my father was throwing the dice. $10 turned into $900 very quickly. I lost back $300 there and at blackjack before I took my $600.

The casino is a big black box where every bet is skewed against you. Go there for the fun of playing, not because you think you can beat them. The closest thing to that I can recall (true story) is when my girlfriend and I were on a road trip and stopped at a roadside casino to use the bathroom. On her way out of the bathroom she found a quarter on the floor. She put it into a slot machine and won $80! Had we stayed we were assured of giving it all back. Instead, we had some gas money.
 
Buzzard II

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I go on a week long ski trip to Lake Tahoe. I ski all day and sleep all night. My buddy skis all day and gambles most of the night. He's up and down all week. Walking through the corridor in the Reno airport on the way home he takes his last five Silver dollars, stick's them in a slot for one last pull. The bastard won enough to cover losses and an entire week of skiing including airfare five minutes from boarding.

Overall he lost his ass in AC. You don't really win.
 
Coos Cues

Coos Cues

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If I ever had the opportunity to meet and scrimmage with an accomplished CTE user like Dave I would try to bring it up as our main topic.

They would be talking and I would be listening.

Would love to understand this thing but Stan's DVD's left me frustrated and wanting.

Too many people swear by it for it to be snake oil. I just don't seem to get it, and not for lack of trying.

Glad you had a good time Brian
 
BC21

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Dan White said:
My father wrote a book about craps as it is a game he loved to play. I think it was one of the gambling book publishers. They paid him to write what was really more of a thick pamphlet.

The reality is that no bet in the whole casino pays out at the rate it is supposed to for a fair game (unless you count placing odds on a pass line bet, which does pay out fair, but you have to play an unfair wager to be able to place odds). Because of this, it doesn't matter how you place your bets (ie, what system you use). You are going to lose in the long run.

Having said that, there are methods that maximize your odds so that you lose more slowly and also allow you to maximize your winnings when on a "hot streak." People remember the hot streaks but forget the hours of choppy play where you lose all that hot streak money back.

Sorry, had to go there!
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So true. The house has an edge always. Even with "true" odds" wagers they charge a 5% fee on place bets.

Gene teaches place bets, using a well orchestrated method of increasing/pressing the bets with your winnings. This decreases out of pocket losses. A 15min hot streak playing Gene's method could win several thousand dollars with a risk of losing less than $50. I used to play the pass line, but who wants even money, 1 to 1, if you can get 9 to 5 for example.

Let's say you put $10 on the pass line. The shooter rolls a 4. You are now locked in until a 4 is rolled or a 7 is rolled. You'll win $10 if the 4 comes up, but you lose it if the 7 comes up. You can make an odds bet also, typically at a max of 2 to 3 times your pass line bet (depending on casino rules). So let's say you're allowed to put $30 on this bet. You now have $40 total riding on number 4. If a 4 is rolled you'll win $10 for the passline bet and $60 on the odds bet (odds for a 4 are 2 to 1). So you win a total of $70.

Now let's say the person next to you doesn't play the passline bet. He bets $40 on the 4, a "place" bet with a "buy" option (true odds). The payout is 2 to 1 with a 5% fee for the "buy" option. The 4 is rolled and he wins $80 minus the $2 fee. You both had $40 riding out there. You won $70. He won $78. Even if he had just made a simple place bet on the 4 without buying true odds, the payout would've been 9 to 5 (winning $9 for every $5 bet). He would've won $72 (with no 5% fee), which is still better than $70 for the same amount of risk.

This is the kind of stuff you learn in Gene's book. But it's not pool related, so I shouldn't have went into it here.
 
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BC21

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Deruki said:
If I ever had the opportunity to meet and scrimmage with an accomplished CTE user like Dave I would try to bring it up as our main topic.

They would be talking and I would be listening.

Would love to understand this thing but Stan's DVD's left me frustrated and wanting.

Too many people swear by it for it to be snake oil. I just don't seem to get it, and not for lack of trying.

Glad you had a good time Brian
Click to expand...

The thing is, Dave was a very accomplished player before CTE. The system just enables him to look at shots with more consistency, to see the shots differently when compared to traditional aiming methods.

I watched as he played and there was no obvious pivoting or funny looking stuff. And he missed balls in the same manner that I did, but less often. He is definitely a solid player, and I really didn't care about any of the CTE business. I was out of stroke and he outplayed me. Next time could easily be different.
 
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