Handicapped Tournaments Pros and Cons

DelawareDogs said:

I'm not a great player, but do enjoy the game and attempt to take it seriously, all the while having a blast! That being said here's my take:

Handicapped tournaments keep the weaker players coming back, for that chance to get lucky, but who does that benefit? Other than the obvious answer (the weaker player who just snapped off the tournament).

The weaker player isn't gaining much pool value when they're firing at the nine, hoping it goes 5 rails somewhere. The stronger player is discouraged when that actually happens.



For the Pros: The room and pool sees more business because the weaker players have a reason to show up. What else does is there? What are your thoughts?

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A bit hashed over, but in my view, the players that come to play in a tournament are really one two types. Those that are playing to test themselves and practice. They want the tough match and even races or if handicapped event they play even if they lose.

Then the rest, most league players, those with ego issues, that use pool as somewhere to go when nothing good is on TV or because it happens to be in a place with alcohol, they only will play if they can win. If they lose, it's because their handicap is not low enough, not because they did not practice as much as the stronger player.

As long as a handicapped event if done fairly, with players ranked by their true ability, there are no issues with doing that vs an even race.

I did find that when trying to setup rules for a local tournament that if you want the second type of players to play, you need to have it be handicapped, and not only that but the same players can't win every week or people quit. Because they are not playing to compete or practice they are playing to say they "beat" someone or "won" even if they did it because they had to do less to win than the other guy.

One local tournament I play in has been getting more and more players in, even though in most weeks the same people are in the top 3, others keep coming back, and getting better. This is an even race.
Another one I play in, people stopped showing up because the same players were winning even when it was handicapped. We went to an even race with some very cheap entry for lower players, and even for $5 vs $15 for the good players those weaker players don't show up. Because they are not interested in learning or playing pool for a night for $5, they just don't want to lose. They are not there to play. I mean what kind of pool player would not spend $5 or 10 to shoot all night against better players that teach them things and then get free table time to boot? Clearly not a real pool player, so worrying about pleasing people like that is useless.

I wouldn't enter handicaped tournaments.

I have 2 years of pool under my belt, and starting to beat those who are around for 10-20 years. I love competitions and I'm always happy to face top notch players in a real battle.

DelawareDogs said:

I'm not a great player, but do enjoy the game and attempt to take it seriously, all the while having a blast! That being said here's my take:

Handicapped tournaments keep the weaker players coming back, for that chance to get lucky, but who does that benefit? Other than the obvious answer (the weaker player who just snapped off the tournament).

The weaker player isn't gaining much pool value when they're firing at the nine, hoping it goes 5 rails somewhere. The stronger player is discouraged when that actually happens.



For the Pros: The room and pool sees more business because the weaker players have a reason to show up. What else does is there? What are your thoughts?

Click to expand...

Place i play has always had rated events and now they're using Fargo and its seems to work well. Good turn-outs and very little whining.

my take

So I play in a non handicap league and play in a weekly handicapped tournament. In the non handicap, I am probably in the middle of the pack as far as skill is concerned. In the handicap, I am close to the bottom.

So I understand the logic in the non handicapped league. No arguments about ratings, just play and see how you really stand with the stronger players and at the same time learn from them. Unfortunately I don't feel I am in a fight, in a battle that requires my full attention. With a weaker player, I am just shooting around without any real concern, knowing if get behind I can step it up. With the stronger players, it's about the same. I will try my best but in the back of my mind I know what the outcome will be and so I play with out pressure and taking lots of risk. Not playing my game

In the handicapped tournament, In every match,I know I have a chance and so play with full attention. I feel the pressure. If I am giving weight, I know i cannot be careless. If I am playing a stronger player, again I have to be on my toes and have to take advantage of any opportunities that may come my way.

So, the bottom line is. Don't we all play for the rush, the pressure to execute, I do
And I get that more in a handicapped match than an non handicap match.

I play in both. I love playing someone better then me. It brings something out of me. I get sometimes get sloppy when playing lesser ability players. The older I get, the less mercy I show on the table though.

Handicaps

Handicaps that go to far are is the problem.Short races with players going to 2 or 3 and can run a rack and play safe.In Iowa the ( state tourns. are handicapped .Open div and intermediate not .Masters 5,6,7 seniors 3,4,5.Players actually lay down so they can stay at that level. Then all year they can play in tourns. at a low level.If a player is a master play at that level. if you are a real open play there.The weasels need to be made to play were they belong.

I find that the cream always rises to the top. I also play in fargo rated tournaments sometime and they do a good job of handicapping. If you are playing 9 ball and giving up 5 games on the wire in a race to 7 or something like that then you have to play call the 9 to keep it somewhat fair.

Without HC tourneys, there is going to be a LOT less dead money available. Lets be honest, most time the good players are going to out run the HC. and if the don't win, it's not going to be a really low level player, its' gonna be the guy/girl right underneath them and that one game on the wire might have helped them.

Most folks are not going to donate, they just won't. Sometimes it's not about winning, but getting a chance to play more than 2 sets. And HC ensures that much, usually. so, for a sawbuck they can play pool for 4-5 hours even if they don't get in the money. Win/win. but without it, then all the good players will stop showing up when there are only 10 folks entering and the pay out for first place is $70

ChicagoRJ said:

Without HC tourneys, there is going to be a LOT less dead money available. Lets be honest, most time the good players are going to out run the HC. and if the don't win, it's not going to be a really low level player, its' gonna be the guy/girl right underneath them and that one game on the wire might have helped them.

Most folks are not going to donate, they just won't. Sometimes it's not about winning, but getting a chance to play more than 2 sets. And HC ensures that much, usually. so, for a sawbuck they can play pool for 4-5 hours even if they don't get in the money. Win/win. but without it, then all the good players will stop showing up when there are only 10 folks entering and the pay out for first place is $70

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Spot on. It's unfortunate in some opinions, but it's reality.

DelawareDogs said:

I'm not a great player, but do enjoy the game and attempt to take it seriously, all the while having a blast! That being said here's my take:

Handicapped tournaments keep the weaker players coming back, for that chance to get lucky, but who does that benefit? Other than the obvious answer (the weaker player who just snapped off the tournament).

The weaker player isn't gaining much pool value when they're firing at the nine, hoping it goes 5 rails somewhere. The stronger player is discouraged when that actually happens.



For the Pros: The room and pool sees more business because the weaker players have a reason to show up. What else does is there? What are your thoughts?

Click to expand...

An excellent topic that has not been touched on in this forum at least since I've been back here the last 3-4 months.

Pros: More players, bigger field, more money in the prize purse (and in the auction if there is one), weaker players not only have a chance to advance deep in to the tournament but they also have the opportunity to experience / learn / and improve their skills from playing matches against better players that they otherwise would unlikely to be playing a match against. It's also critically important for the newer, lower skilled players to learn proper player etiquette that they may not otherwise learn playing only with other lower skilled, newer players. Valuable experience for players of various skill levels to have to play matches against other players - stronger or weaker.

Cons: Very tough for the TD to accurately handicap all players - as so many players are so inconsistent in their performance, particularly in a short race. The more skilled players may get discouraged from participating from losing to lesser skilled players particularly when it happens based on luck. Players may feel like the incentives to improve their game is lessened by the handicap system, as opposed to non-handicapped tournaments where only the skilled players survive.

In summation, as a room owner and tournament director, I think handicapped tournaments are good - particularly in poolrooms (such as ours) where there are not enough tournament players to field a good sized regular weekly tournament unless it is a hancapped format. In my opinion as a TD, the higher skilled player, if they play up to their ability and play smart, will always have the advantage in a match against a lower skilled player - even with the handicap. However, in any given single short race match between 2 players, anything can happen.

As a TD who is in charge of handicap ratings for tournament players, you can't please everyone and you know you're doing when job when both the higher ranked players as well as the lower ranked players are constantly complaining about their ranking, or another player's ranking. If your regular players return week after week, and you've had a number of different tournament winners, you're probably doing a decent job.

The pisser for me is the handful of guys that bang balls off the end rail at APA to stay a 5 or 6 and them cash every tourney you go to.F those guys.

Handicapped tournaments are better for both stronger players, because they get a challenge, and weaker players, because they can compete instead of getting quickly eliminated. Of course you wouldn't want larger tournaments to be handicapped, like yearly city, state, or regional tournaments. But handicapped tournaments for weekly events are perfect to get weaker players a chance to practice under tournament conditions.

I used to be in a chess club, and it was considered the responsibility of the strongest players to play the weaker players with a handicap (removing some pieces). You'd be an @ssh*le if you were a stronger player but had the attitude that the weaker players had to lose money to you over and over again "to get better."

Under $50 no handicaps....I just think a low enough entry will keep the fields in the same ball park. No open players are gonna jump in tourneys where 1st place is a few hundred....I could be wrong though

What i was referring to are the guys playing as intermediates who woof at master players and gamble even up playing longer sets but because of their (rating) get spots in tourns. In longer sets call shot i agree the better players usually have the best of it. Today there are enough no master ,b bc ,cd type tourns. If players want to test the water once in a while to see how they stack up jump in .We used to have 32 player everyother sat. no handicap. If you didnt signup that week you were out. Now its about the nuts.You want to bag get a job at the supermarket.

Handicapped tournaments have their place and serve a purpose, open tournaments have their place and serve a purpose, this is fairly obvious. If you live, where you have many options, pick and choose to your hearts’ delight. If not, just sign up and go for it, either way, you get to shoot.