Hard Times closing

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GaryB

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
LAMas said:
I am not L.A. Mo who was a Black security Guard back then - nice guy.
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We probably unknowingly have seen each other before. Besides Hard Times L.A. Mo played regularly at Yankee Doodles in Long Beach. He had his security license and had a couple of guys working for him for a while. As you said he was a very nice guy who had a deep love for pool.

Just a quick story. I had a friend who had a Schon I loved. The shafts had the old stitching. He finally agreed to sell it to me and we were to meet at the aforementioned Yankee Doodles. We met up and I had the cash plus a tad more just in case. Didn't make any difference because he had changed his mind. I was really sore. About a year or so later Mo wanted to borrow some money I wasn't very anxious to loan until he said he would give me his cue as collateral and damned if he didn't take out the Schon he had ended up buying from my buddy. I found out later that he had paid more. Anyway I loaned him the money and prayed every night that he would default. Unfortunately he came up with the money in time. That Schon is still one of my all time favorites.

Memories.
 
L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
GaryB said:
I remember that Joey., The guy Kong was playing was Moto a good 1 Hole player and the guy who got in Moto's face was Kong's backer. Big mistake because as you said Moto nailed him real good. Guy went down and Moto nailed him again. It was funny how
quick Kong got to the light to grab the money. One of the funniest parts was Kenny who owned the place at the time was sitting next to us and he got up real fast and ran the short distance to the table yelling for security over and over. Kenny had forgotten he had fired the Samoan security guys the week before!

That was the only time I ever saw something like that there.

Thanks for the info on the tables. Means options are still on the board unless the whole bldg is scheduled for community redevelopment. The physical configuration of the property is not conducive to leasing. Especially in this economic environment.
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So Kong and Moto cut up Kong's backer...pool ethics?

I once watched Ernesto gambling when a couple of guys with a gun robs him and his opponent then as soon as the robbers leave, the get more money and start gambling again.
 
CESSNA10

CESSNA10

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
SBC said:
I'm still open... Well in 4 weeks when punk ass Govenor Cuomo says we can.
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Yes you people in NY have a couple of real winners
Mayor Bill de Blasio and
Governor Andrew Cuomo oops
almost forgot Senator Chuck Schumer
 
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GaryB

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
LAMas said:
So Kong and Moto cut up Kong's backer...pool ethics?

I once watched Ernesto gambling when a couple of guys with a gun robs him and his opponent then as soon as the robbers leave, the get more money and start gambling again.
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No. Kong was sharking and Moto told him that he had better stop. Then Kong's backer who was playing a table away started getting in Moto's face. I don't know why unless he was seeing like the rest of us his money going down the road. Anyway he pushed it too hard and Moto decked him. Kong went for the posted money while the fight was going on. There was no conspiracy or cutting up between Kong and Moto at all. Just Kong sharking Moto and Moto decking Kong's backer while Kong went after the money. He ended up giving Moto his post.
 
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Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not even close...the biggest pool hall has been Q-Masters in Virginia Beach, VA. They've had 70 tables for decades! :D

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

poolhallbanger said:
The largest pool hall in the USA survived to the bitter end without selling alcohol and prohibiting smoking- amazing business model for a gargantuan pool hall on 2 floors.
Hopefully, one day soon, we can all enjoy a game of pool in a public pool hall:D
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JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
GaryB said:
No. Kong was sharking and Moto told him that he had better stop. Then Kong's backer who was playing a table away started getting in Moto's face. I don't know why unless he was seeing like the rest of us his money going down the road. Anyway he pushed it too hard and Moto decked him. Kong went for the posted money while the fight was going on. There was no conspiracy or cutting up between Kong and Moto at all. Just Kong sharking Moto and Moto decking Kong's backer while Kong went after the money. He ended up giving Moto his post.
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Happened in 2004.
A few weeks later, I saw Kong and Cisco at a pool place in Cypress .
We were there for the Pac-Morales rematch.
People were betting on the fight mightily.
Pac knocked out Morales and we went nuts .
The place absolutely went nuts as there were a ton of Pinoys there since Dante owned the place.
Cisco was still recovering . He looked like he still had concussion.
 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Scott Lee said:
Not even close...the biggest pool hall has been Q-Masters in Virginia Beach, VA. They've had 70 tables for decades! :D

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour
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That is huge.
Biggest place I saw was the old Lion's Den in Las Vegas.
My late friend Edwin managed it.
They had 50 AMF tables.
Owners kept cheating each other until they decided to close.
 
L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
GaryB said:
No. Kong was sharking and Moto told him that he had better stop. Then Kong's backer who was playing a table away started getting in Moto's face. I don't know why unless he was seeing like the rest of us his money going down the road. Anyway he pushed it too hard and Moto decked him. Kong went for the posted money while the fight was going on. There was no conspiracy or cutting up between Kong and Moto at all. Just Kong sharking Moto and Moto decking Kong's backer while Kong went after the money. He ended up giving Moto his post.
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Was Kong using his backer's money to gamble with Moto?
Did Kong take the money including the backer's and return some to Moto?

Thanks
 
jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
GaryB said:
Not always. I remember one night when he was matching up with Cliff Joyner getting 10/8 and we had a long wait because he was playing in the 1st Sunday of the Month Tournament--this was when they got almost 100 players every month with many coming from as far away as Arizona--he won the tournament. While waiting I watched Cliff warm up on the table the match was going to be played on. It was absolutely awesome watching him warm up as he seemed to make everything with ease including many that looked like trick shots. John, we called him "Victorville John" at that time, finally won the tournament and the match began with John apologizing for making Cliff wait. Talk about being in stroke! John came from playing 9 Ball all day and Boom it was over. He could have easily given Cliff 10/8. He demolished him!!

LAMas I don't think I know you unless you also go by L.A. Mo. If so you just accidently forgot because you were the one that called me at home about them matching up which you often did when there was a good match or someone tapped out and was looking to sell their cue.

Those were great times. I watched John drop a lot of money to Morro several nights a week while Jack Cooney was teaching him 1 Hole during the day. John kept saying that he could beat Morro that he had to just get over the head trip. He did and Morro could never touch him again.

I remember him coming in to play Jack on a Monday and he was joking with Jack and said "I lose all of this money to you learning the basics of this game and Friday night I lost 2K to Keith while watching him break every rule you had taught me."

Great place and times!
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Thanks for reminding me. I was in with Cliff. :eek:

Not to worry. I staked Cliff in the U.S. Bar Table the same year and he won both divisions (5K each) and a thousand dollar bonus for sweeping them both. I gave him half the money (5.5K) and took my half and went to my room at the Sands in Reno. About 7 AM there is a knock on my door and I wake up. Cliff is standing there looking all weepy eyed. He lost all his money in the casino and wanted to borrow 200. I gave it to him. An hour later he's back at my door, now asking for 400 to get home on. This time I take his Meucci for collateral. He never did try to get that cue back and eventually I sold it for the 400. I also staked Cliff in the IPT and he won $5,500 (same amount - funny huh) in a qualifier by running five racks of eight ball and banking the eight ball to win one game. It took me two months to get the IPT to pay me, but finally they paid off. Cliff and I made money together and always got along fine, but I knew where to draw the line backing him for cash, and it was around 1K or less. He did beat some guy at DCC out of over 3,000 at One Pocket, never betting more than 200 a game. They started out at 8-6 and ended up at 8-4! Cliff must have won nearly every game.
 
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jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
GaryB said:
I remember that Joey., The guy Kong was playing was Moto a good 1 Hole player and the guy who got in Moto's face was Kong's backer. Big mistake because as you said Moto nailed him real good. Guy went down and Moto nailed him again. It was funny how
quick Kong got to the light to grab the money. One of the funniest parts was Kenny who owned the place at the time was sitting next to us and he got up real fast and ran the short distance to the table yelling for security over and over. Kenny had forgotten he had fired the Samoan security guys the week before!

That was the only time I ever saw something like that there.

Thanks for the info on the tables. Means options are still on the board unless the whole bldg is scheduled for community redevelopment. The physical configuration of the property is not conducive to leasing. Especially in this economic environment.
Click to expand...

Moto and i played several times at my last poolroom at Hollywood Park. He was the "King of the Ghetto" in L.A., the best One Pocket player at the time. He also worked full time at Disneyland in their maintenance department, repairing broken equipment, a high paying job. I could never beat him at One Pocket and he could never beat me at Banks, so we went back and forth. Our game was we would play two games of One Pocket (50 or 100 a game) and two games of Bank Pool for the same amount. After we broke even a couple of times he quit coming around.

I liked playing him. We never had any kind of problem. He was there to play pool and not anything else. Win or lose we would shake hands when it was over. One time I bombarded him playing Banks, winning 5-0, 5-0. I think I ran a three and a two one game and got out in three innings the next. Big Charlie was there and he cried out, "Jay is the new King of the Ghetto!". I never felt so good. Charlie came in late and didn't know I had lost to Moto playing One Pocket and was now just getting even.

Moto was a healthy looking guy, the strong, quiet type. Those are the guys you don't want to fool around with.
 
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jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
LAMas said:
So Kong and Moto cut up Kong's backer...pool ethics?

I once watched Ernesto gambling when a couple of guys with a gun robs him and his opponent then as soon as the robbers leave, the get more money and start gambling again.
Click to expand...

He was playing Bob Hunter and they had put up 6K each and it was on the light. I told them that Chuck would put it in the safe but they declined the offer. They were playing on the table closest to the front door onto Bellflower Blvd. There must have been a couple dozen people sweating the match. Some guy walks in waving a large caliber pistol, jumps up on the table, scoops the money off the light, jumps down, and is out the door and into a Caddy parked outside, and they speed off and hop on the freeway never to be seen again. It took all of maybe thirty seconds!

The amazing part is they now put up 3-4K each (all they had left) and played some more! People suspected that it had to be an inside job, with someone letting these guys know what was going on and where the money was. No one ever found out who told them.
 
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JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
jay helfert said:
Moto and i played several times at my last poolroom at Hollywood Park. He was the "King of the Ghetto" in L.A., the best One Pocket player at the time. He also worked full time at Disneyland in their maintenance department, repairing broken equipment, a high paying job. I could never beat him at One Pocket and he could never beat me at Banks, so we went back and forth. Our game was we would play two games of One Pocket (50 or 100 a game) and two games of Bank Pool for the same amount. After we broke even a couple of times he quit coming around.

I liked playing him. We never had any kind of problem. He was there to play pool and not to do anything else. Win or lose we would shake hands when it was over. One time I bombarded him playing Banks, winning 5-0, 5-0. I think I ran a three and a two one game and got out in three innings the next. Big Charlie was there and he cried out, "Jay is the new King of the Ghetto!". I never felt so good. Charlie came in late and didn't know I had lost to Moto playing One Pocket and was now just getting even.

Moto was a healthy looking guy, the strong, quiet type. Those are the guys you don't won't to fool around with.
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And he has a very good left cross.
He definitely boxed in some level in his younger years.
 
mnb

mnb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member

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GaryB

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
LAMas said:
Was Kong using his backer's money to gamble with Moto?
Did Kong take the money including the backer's and return some to Moto?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Good question. I know Moto came back right away & got his $, The backer was sitting over by table 1 bleeding while Kenny tried to stop the bleeding. I never saw Kong give the money back to the guy but since they knew each other so well I assume he got his $ back. However, I didn't see him get it.
 
G

GaryB

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jay helfert said:
Thanks for reminding me. I was in with Cliff. :eek:

Not to worry. I staked Cliff in the U.S. Bar Table the same year and he won both divisions (5K each) and a thousand dollar bonus for sweeping them both. I gave him half the money (5.5K) and took my half and went to my room at the Sands in Reno. About 7 AM there is a knock on my door and I wake up. Cliff is standing there looking all weepy eyed. He lost all his money in the casino and wanted to borrow 200. I gave it to him. An hour later he's back at my door, now asking for 400 to get home on. This time I take his Meucci for collateral. He never did try to get that cue back and eventually I sold it for the 400. I also staked Cliff in the IPT and he won $5,500 (same amount - funny huh) in a qualifier by running five racks of eight ball and banking the eight ball to win one game. It took me two months to get the IPT to pay me, but finally they paid off. Cliff and I made money together and always got along fine, but I knew where to draw the line backing him for cash, and it was around 1K or less. He did beat some guy at DCC out of over 3,000 at One Pocket, never betting more than 200 a game. They started out at 8-6 and ended up at 8-4! Cliff must have won nearly every game.
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I know "Cowboy" drove Cliff all over So. Calif, including up to Ventura getting Cliff some games & Cliff ended up giving "Cowboy" $50.00 for gas. That was one pissed off "Cowboy."
 
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