Orcollo vs SVB confirmed

J

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
skogstokig said:
a template is the better option, ofc, but even then with tilting the rack, put the rack above or below the spot, set the low balls where you want them, etc. you can achieve some rack mechanical advantages
Click to expand...

Yep.

In 9 ball with magic rack:

Rack balls ~.25" lower and the wing ball will go even easier but, the back (where 2 usually goes) will have a wreck more often before it gets down table. Plus, with rack lower, the 1 ball is more out "not" to go into side pocket....and to me, thats a plus. That way you know for sure where the 1 is gonna be.

Move entire rack forward and your opponent will not make the wing ball....period. however, the 1 ball will go in side more often.

In 10 ball and magic rack:

Move entire rack up table ~.25" and the two balls behind the 1 ball goes much, much easier to side pockets....unless the felt is new or balls are polished....if thats the case, they will go WWWAAAYYY long past sides which means push the rack back instead of up to adjust.

Tilting the rack is hard to do and not get caught so, I don't normally expect that to happen but, I do play several people that "try" to move the rack around to affect the layouts.

All that tells me is they are scared or they wouldn't do it.

Jeff
 
S

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jrctherake said:
Yep.

In 9 ball with magic rack:

Rack balls ~.25" lower and the wing ball will go even easier but, the back (where 2 usually goes) will have a wreck more often before it gets down table. Plus, with rack lower, the 1 ball is more out "not" to go into side pocket....and to me, thats a plus. That way you know for sure where the 1 is gonna be.

Move entire rack forward and your opponent will not make the wing ball....period. however, the 1 ball will go in side more often.

In 10 ball and magic rack:

Move entire rack up table ~.25" and the two balls behind the 1 ball goes much, much easier to side pockets....unless the felt is new or balls are polished....if thats the case, they will go WWWAAAYYY long past sides which means push the rack back instead of up to adjust.

Tilting the rack is hard to do and not get caught so, I don't normally expect that to happen but, I do play several people that "try" to move the rack around to affect the layouts.

All that tells me is they are scared or they wouldn't do it.

Jeff
Click to expand...

yet, orcullo and shane have both utilized the tilting tactic. md and corey were opponents
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jasonlaus said:
Why is he one of the only ones who cannot rack with a template?

Never in my life have I been able to move the 1 ball BACK in ANY rack, I always have to move the other balls forward if there is a gap.

So, if he isnt fixing a gap, the only thing he could be doing is creating one.
Click to expand...
Not that I am making any videos, but as I noted earlier, when I template rack on my table, I need to set the balls, then tweak the way the 2nd row sits, tthen lean the 1 into the 2nd row while holding row 3 still.

That's the only way they freeze perfectly.
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jrctherake said:
Yep.

In 9 ball with magic rack:

Rack balls ~.25" lower and the wing ball will go even easier but, the back (where 2 usually goes) will have a wreck more often before it gets down table. Plus, with rack lower, the 1 ball is more out "not" to go into side pocket....and to me, thats a plus. That way you know for sure where the 1 is gonna be.

Move entire rack forward and your opponent will not make the wing ball....period. however, the 1 ball will go in side more often.

In 10 ball and magic rack:

Move entire rack up table ~.25" and the two balls behind the 1 ball goes much, much easier to side pockets....unless the felt is new or balls are polished....if thats the case, they will go WWWAAAYYY long past sides which means push the rack back instead of up to adjust.

Tilting the rack is hard to do and not get caught so, I don't normally expect that to happen but, I do play several people that "try" to move the rack around to affect the layouts.

All that tells me is they are scared or they wouldn't do it.

Jeff
Click to expand...

And it is worth noting that the rules state the 1 (or 9) has to be on the spot...which does allow for a decent bit of variation in their settings.
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You guys that say you can't touch the balls in a template rack, have you ever actually used a template rack? If you just throw them in, they will not be automatically frozen. You have to nudge them together, just like Black Balled said. I have been using them off and on at home and at pool rooms since they came out 10 years ago or 15 whenever it was. Almost every time, I've had to nudge a ball or 3 to make sure they are all frozen. I don't think its cheating at all to touch the balls. In fact, I'd bet most players, and I mean experienced players, not bangers, would need to touch the balls using a template rack to get them to freeze.
 
jasonlaus

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
iusedtoberich said:
You guys that say you can't touch the balls in a template rack, have you ever actually used a template rack? If you just throw them in, they will not be automatically frozen. You have to nudge them together, just like Black Balled said. I have been using them off and on at home and at pool rooms since they came out 10 years ago or 15 whenever it was. Almost every time, I've had to nudge a ball or 3 to make sure they are all frozen. I don't think its cheating at all to touch the balls. In fact, I'd bet most players, and I mean experienced players, not bangers, would need to touch the balls using a template rack to get them to freeze.
Click to expand...

Of course we've used them. Shane ONLY has a problem with the 1 ball, and its every rack. Why is that??? Couldnt be that he's trying to create a gap. :rolleyes:

Btw, nobody has said you cant touch the balls, they always have to be touched, but this guy(shane) only has a problem with the 1 ball.
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jasonlaus said:
Of course we've used them. Shane ONLY has a problem with the 1 ball, and its every rack. Why is that??? Couldnt be that he's trying to create a gap. :rolleyes:

Btw, nobody has said you cant touch the balls, they always have to be touched, but this guy(shane) only has a problem with the 1 ball.
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I doubt it. I think its to make sure the one is frozen to the second row. Sometimes its easier to just rub on the ball a hair and then look at it.

Don't forget, Shane had the best break by a mile when the world at large was exposed to him in TAR 1 vs Corey. That was with a wooden rack. We saw the same outstanding break performance from him on every single TAR afterwards, plus every single event he ever played, whatever the game, whatever the rack device, and whether the ref rack or Shane rack. His break is simply above everyone else's. Its not his racking fingers that is the cause.

Corey and Mills have all the gimmicks down pat. Shane beat the shit out of both of them with his hard break.
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Edit to add, since Shane burst on the scene in TAR 1 vs Corey in I believe 2007, no one has seemed to have reached his level on the break. Even Alex or Dennis that played Shane a bunch of times has not matched it. Alex was even standing behind Shane while Shane was breaking in one of their TAR matches and saw that Shane was popping the CB in the air so it would not get kissed by the 2 corner balls that were flying 4 rails around the table.

I think the only player that has a break "maybe" equal to Shane is Tyler. Now go figure, his game is way below Shane (as evidenced by his Fargo), but his break super close, if not equal to it. How did Tyler figure it out, but Dennis, Alex, Busty, Shaw, etc, not figure it out?
 
jasonlaus

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
iusedtoberich said:
I doubt it. I think its to make sure the one is frozen to the second row. Sometimes its easier to just rub on the ball a hair and then look at it.

Don't forget, Shane had the best break by a mile when the world at large was exposed to him in TAR 1 vs Corey. That was with a wooden rack. We saw the same outstanding break performance from him on every single TAR afterwards, plus every single event he ever played, whatever the game, whatever the rack device, and whether the ref rack or Shane rack. His break is simply above everyone else's. Its not his racking fingers that is the cause.

Corey and Mills have all the gimmicks down pat. Shane beat the shit out of both of them with his hard break.
Click to expand...

This has been discussed before by other PRO players, believe what you want to believe.

Again, the only guy who cant get the 1 ball to freeze without messing with it every single time. I guess all the other pros dont know how to use a rack
 
jasonlaus

jasonlaus

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Silver Member
iusedtoberich said:
Edit to add, since Shane burst on the scene in TAR 1 vs Corey in I believe 2007, no one has seemed to have reached his level on the break. Even Alex or Dennis that played Shane a bunch of times has not matched it. Alex was even standing behind Shane while Shane was breaking in one of their TAR matches and saw that Shane was popping the CB in the air so it would not get kissed by the 2 corner balls that were flying 4 rails around the table.

I think the only player that has a break "maybe" equal to Shane is Tyler. Now go figure, his game is way below Shane (as evidenced by his Fargo), but his break super close, if not equal to it. How did Tyler figure it out, but Dennis, Alex, Busty, Shaw, etc, not figure it out?
Click to expand...

You are giving more credence to him being a rack mechanic by saying this.
 
Joe_Jaguar

Joe_Jaguar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jasonlaus said:
This has been discussed before by other PRO players, believe what you want to believe.

Again, the only guy who cant get the 1 ball to freeze without messing with it every single time. I guess all the other pros dont know how to use a rack
Click to expand...

Do you just make this sh!t up as you go? :rolleyes:
 
J

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Black-Balled said:
And it is worth noting that the rules state the 1 (or 9) has to be on the spot...which does allow for a decent bit of variation in their settings.
Click to expand...

Is your point that the 1 ball can be off a little? If so, ok but, thats not what I was talking about cause I'm 99% certain that players are allowed a certain amount of error with putting the head ball on the spot.

I'm not gonna look it up, you can if you want but, I think rules state that the 1 ball has to be within "x" amount from center of spot.

Again, I'm not gonna look it up but, I'm certain they allow that in case a spot has damage and wont let the rack freeze so, we can cheat the spot a hair if needed.

All that doesn't change the fact that moving the rack up...down etc...etc can and will change the spread by a great margin.

I'm sure you knew all that already.
 
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R

raistlinsdragon

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm still wondering why terrahanna removed his post of what SVB said about playing DO. Seems maybe Ray thought it was bad for pay for view.
 
S

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
one stroke said:
The fact is that post would has much more potential of bringing more viewers than the other was around


1
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true that, if it's a grudge match i would be more inclined to watch it. i'm not a huge fan of dennis playing speed / getting up and restarting shots
 
Positively Ralf

Positively Ralf

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hope everyone who loves these kind of gambling matches enjoy it. I've never understood the allure of them myself, but whatever helps the pool community be entertained.
 
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