Polishing Balls During a Run

Lou:

I have to agree, with one exception: the cue ball.

Let me say that I am one that enjoys these long run videos, like the runs filmed in Bill's house. I'll correct myself -- I REALLY enjoy these videos, and greatly appreciate the time and effort it takes to collect and upload them! I like to watch how a player, in a relaxed mindset, handles patterns, and what kind of risks he/she takes to ensure the run keeps going.

But, as you infer, I view them in a completely different light than I do, say, a long run that was executed in an actual match, where the player had to actually work for it. One of the reasons why is exactly what this thread is about -- the constant cleaning of the balls. I wouldn't go as far to call it a gaffe (or a circus run), but rather a non-real-life playing environment, different enough to even differentiate these from normal practice runs.

I do view the cleaning of the cue ball to be a different matter, though. Obviously, the cue ball collects chalk from the impact with the cue (and especially that Kamui sh.. -- I mean -- stuff that some people use). So when the cue ball gets dirty enough to cause excess skidding (and hopping, as David/acousticsguru mentions), I see no harm or foul in properly marking the cue ball position and giving a towel or white glove treatment to the cue ball. This, obviously, can be abused as well -- e.g. doing it more than once every single rack can be seen as excessive.

JMHO, however.
-Sean

I've seen a rack of balls cleaned during a tournament match between racks, although it's fairly rare. It's not that uncommon to see them wiped with a wet rag during a tourney, and sometimes mid-match, and it's all within the rules. I've also seen players request a new set during a match and get it. It is quite frequent for a player to ask a referee to clean a ball that appears to have something on it (in fact, colored, meaning non-red, snooker balls are typically wiped by the referee before they are placed back on their assigned spots mid-rack). Seems to me that everything that is practical seems to be done when it comes to keeping the balls clean, even in tournament play.

It has often been noted here on the forum that the conditions of yesteryear cannot be duplicated easily. Dirtier balls, slow nappy cloth, high deflection shafts, deader rails, no air conditioning, possibly smaller (4x8) or larger tables (5x10), looser pockets, smoky rooms without air conditioning, were the norm in the good old days.

.... but, to me, all these nuances should all be ignored. It makes sense to me that the players of today use all the conveniences that these times afford them and play on and with the equipment that is typical of these times. There will always be debates when high runs occur, but a high run is a high run, and I wouldn't be inclined to view a high run as illegitimate just because the balls were cleaned or polished during the run.

I'm a big fan of cleaning the cue ball every rack, regardless of the game. I think cleaning the other balls every few racks is excessive...plus I doubt many tournaments would put up with it (more than maybe once), either, so there would be a difference between a basement high run and a tournament high run...although I'm not convinced cleaning the balls every rack would make that much difference, since they really don't pick that much up that frequently. Cleaning the cue ball does make a difference, however.

In 9 or 8 ball I like to clean the cue ball myself each time I'm given ball in hand in a tournament match...helps settle me down. In straight pool, I see nothing wrong/improper with a player calling for a cue ball cleaning at the conclusion of each rack during a run, either. Seems pretty shrewd, to me.

As a little side..
Mike Sigel carries around a set of T.V. balls.
They look like new. He said he has had them for about 6 months and has not cleaned them yet! He probably has cleaned the cue ball? He loves them. :smile:

cleaning the cueball is so common i think that's a normal part of the game. and as pointed out, Kamui in the equation makes it almost impossible to play without cleaning.

as for other balls, it seems sensible to be able to clean obvious problems, at the very least. even in Sigel's famous 150 against Zuglan, i believe i remember him pointing to an object ball and getting it cleaned.

the very fact that refs used to wear gloves sometimes actually cleaned the balls somewhat with each rack.

running them through a ball cleaner every few racks... well, i dunno, but at least keeping the equipment clean enough to not be Unfair seems okay to me. tables Can get dirty and give bad rolls. i remember seeing Thorsten ask for the table to be cleaned during last year's World match with Alex, although that might've just been about powder.

while we're on the subject, i remember watching a video where the table spot gave John Schmidt TWO bad rolls in one match. not disastrous, but his position certainly would've been better without that nipple pastie getting in the way...

Only the cue ball. On a clean table the others should stay clean. If I see chalk on a object ball I'll wipe it off when its pocketed. I carry a extra cue ball for the lag.

I'm one of the few who get the balls polished before taking a table.

A pet peeve, taking object balls while I'm on a pee break and getting them all chalked up.

Not a great player here, but i'm not offended at all by the frequent polishing, especially in "practice", and in my mind the practice run is not tainted by the excessive polishing.
(practice runs are already distinguished from tournament runs anyway, due to ideal opening break shots, etc).

I take note of Lou's comment that all this polishing must mean something or the top players would not be doing it!

(tennis analogy - weekend hackers play all day with one can of balls, in pro tournaments the balls are replaced every 9 games - clearly pros can tell the difference and dont want to play with even slightly worn balls).
An argument can be made that regular polishing could be "standardized" in pool tournaments as well, cleaned after (say) every 9 racks whether you ask for it or not.
(?)

sfleinen said:

I have to agree, with one exception: the cue ball.

Click to expand...

Second that. What's standard for the Snooker pros should be good enough for us Straight Pool aficionados!

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

I don't know if "tainted" is the right word or not. I don't think records tell as much of the story as people want them to. Look at the controversy over Roger Maris' 61 home run season, which was done in more games than Ruth had. They were going to put an asterisk in the record book.

So I think Lou's right in saying polishing the balls must give an advantage, but at the same time I wouldn't suggest an asterisk for whoever runs 527. Yes, Mosconi played on an 8 foot table, but then again the balls probably weren't being polished. You can go back and forth endlessly over who had what advantage. I think if you polished the balls with something that made them play differently than normal, then you would have a legitimate grip, and a suspect run.

Just to set the record straight when Corey put the balls in the ball polisher he did not add any polish to the balls, they were just spinning against a dry buffing pad. I knew some people would take offense to it and that's why I was against putting these videos up in the first place.
By the way, Schmidt ran 366 on this table on video. I don't believe the balls were ever put in the polisher during the run.

-Bill

Dan White said:

I don't know if "tainted" is the right word or not.
So I think Lou's right in saying polishing the balls must give an advantage.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure "advantage" is the right word either? My understanding is that polishing just restores the balls to the way there were at the first break. So it stops the natural degradation in equipment that occurs during the game.

In baseball they replace any ball that is scuffed, and they do it often - advantage?

We chalk our tips before every shot. What if the old-timers never did that, they just chalked once before the match and let the tip "degrade" during the game. Would we say frequent chalking is an advantage? Maybe :grin:

Marop said:

Just to set the record straight when Corey put the balls in the ball polisher he did not add any polish to the balls, they were just spinning against a dry buffing pad. I knew some people would take offense to it and that's why I was against putting these videos up in the first place.
By the way, Schmidt ran 366 on this table on video. I don't believe the balls were ever put in the polisher during the run.

-Bill

Click to expand...

don't not put it up Bill. A 366 is an amazing feat and I for one would love to see it. No matter if he cleaned or not cleaned should not be the issue even though everyone does have an opinion on the subject and it makes for an interesting conversation. hell i could polish till the cows come home I still might never get to 100.
thx for the videos
steven

driven said:

don't not put it up Bill.

Click to expand...

^^^^what he said! (except without the double negative )

I'm learning so much from these videos, I dont think there is any serious criticism going on here, just some random comments about what we think we are seeing. I'm very thankful for everything here!

This is the mature forum too, we can handle it :thumbup:

michael4 said:

I'm not sure "advantage" is the right word either? My understanding is that polishing just restores the balls to the way there were at the first break. So it stops the natural degradation in equipment that occurs during the game.

Click to expand...

I still think of it as an advantage because the "normal degredation" as you say is the regular way people run balls. If there were a competition of 10 guys trying to get a high run on the same day, and 1 of them polished the balls after say every third rack, I'd say he has an advantage, all else being equal.

Frankly, what a guy does in the privacy of his own home is none of my business, but I really wouldn't want to see this in tournament play. Straight pool is trying to make a resurgence here and we don't need to slow the game down by having players call for the balls to go in the machine every rack. Clean the cue ball on a scratch if you want and let the ref use gloves when he racks the object balls, but that should be about it for competition. Maybe allow cleaning the CB between racks if it has significant chalk build up on it, everyone hates a skidder.

lfigueroa said:

First off, let me say that the high run videos are fine and I know many guys find them entertaining.

My question is: do you think polishing the balls multiple times during a run somehow impugns the integrity of the run?

Click to expand...

No.
-----------

michael4 said:

I'm not sure "advantage" is the right word either? My understanding is that polishing just restores the balls to the way there were at the first break. So it stops the natural degradation in equipment that occurs during the game.

In baseball they replace any ball that is scuffed, and they do it often - advantage?

We chalk our tips before every shot. What if the old-timers never did that, they just chalked once before the match and let the tip "degrade" during the game. Would we say frequent chalking is an advantage? Maybe :grin:

Click to expand...

Very Very well put don't these professional pool players deserve professionally kept equipment just as in tennis or as you mentioned baseball.
Next someone will say they should go back to clay balls. LOL
Don't forget AC is an advantage!

As a side note, being a Straight Pool aficionado myself, I fail to see "purity" in grease, debris and dirt…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti