How do most of your runs end...

DogsPlayingPool

DogsPlayingPool

"What's in your wallet?"
Silver Member
...And what do you think it means?

I've been thinking about this lately. I'm starting to pay more attention to how my innings end i.e. missed shot, bad position / wrong speed, no break shot, lose control or scratch on a break shot, not successfully moving balls or dealing with clusters and problem balls, safety, etc.

I'm trying to get an idea of how to interpret these to improve my play. For example, if I'm sitting down because I'm missing on shots I should have made perhaps I need to practice my potting skills or review my pre-shot routine to make sure I'm not missing because I've lost focus or gotten sloppy/lazy.

If my misses are mostly on difficult shots perhaps I need to review my strategy - -why didn't I play a safe? Why did I end up facing a difficult shot? Was it because of a poor pattern selection or because of poor speed control?

Any insight you guys could provide on the cause and effect here would be appreciated. Actually, the cause is what I'm after since we already know the "effect" (loss of inning). I'm not really talking about any particular problem but asking more in general. In other words, if your innings tend to end this way here are probable reasons and ways to solve them; if your innings end that way here are some possible ways to improve etc.

I haven't found that much info in how to interpret one's misses and I think this would be useful information.

Thanks.

Dogs
 
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DogsPlayingPool

DogsPlayingPool

"What's in your wallet?"
Silver Member
Thanks Creedo. I guess I should have titled my thread "Interpreting Misses" because that's more of what I'm interested in. I'd like to know what others think about how or why runs come to a halt can suggest what to work on to improve.

Sometimes the real cause is not quite so obvious.
 
sausage

sausage

Banned
If my misses are mostly on difficult shots perhaps I need to review my strategy - -why didn't I play a safe? Why did I end up facing a difficult shot? Was it because of a poor pattern selection or because of poor speed control?
Click to expand...

giving yourself difficult shots is generally because you lose focus on minimal cue movement. at least that has been my experience.
 
Ratta

Ratta

Hearing the balls.....
Silver Member
If you re starting to try to make your training a bit more *pro* your question/thread-title is excellent imo! Especially if you are training on your own (solo) you can find out really much about *your mistakes* ........if you re paying attention! And the most players don t do that (because it is really not easy to do something like this constantly-most gettin bored or frustrated). If i m giving lessons where i just watch the player doing his drills/patterns i usualy not each failure (each miss)-important is just to note what you re doing wrong- if, for example, the player misses 10 out of 50 shots- and his misses are (just for example!!!) all about *undercut* balls or *overcut* ..you have analyzed important things and you re able to work on it. (Same of course for each other *bad habit*). I just can recommend (like always, lol^^) to everyone to work especially if you re workin on your fundamentals a qualified instructor- and then using a cam- the cam is such a helpful thing in training. A cam is pure-and it does not lie!

Training with 2 guys is also very good- i often hollered at some so called (self-called) guys who are training...(they call it ....but mostly a waste of time). I see from far behind that one of those 2 guys makin terrible technical mistakes.....and his opponent/friend/guy he s training with SAYS NOTHING....woah- things could make me upset anytime *grin*. There are for sure so many things where you could help each other without being a qualified instructor- like not finishing your stroke, *standing up* in your stroke etc etc etc. - That s a phenomen in my eyes in pool-billards- some guys seem to be afraid that the opponent could be better.....-
YOU can always learn-even from your opponent-and if you re seeing mistakes, failures or what ever this is SPEAKING ALSO for yourself (and your abilities!!)- So if you have a good friend you could train with...do it-and help yourself each other.


Ok- perhaps a bit off-topic for some people- but it s all about the same. Analyzing each shot if you re training solo is a must-be if you wanna get better.

Just my humble opinion,

lg and have fund while training :)

Ingo
 
mosconiac

mosconiac

Job+Wife+Child=No Stroke
Silver Member
My instinct is I'm an equal-opportunity run-stopper, but I don't really know.

You've inspired me to track my errors so I can reveal any trends..and work on them. Thanks for the inspiration.

I'll start tonight, I have a 14.1 league match!
 
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DogsPlayingPool

DogsPlayingPool

"What's in your wallet?"
Silver Member
mosconiac said:
My instinct is I'm an equal-opportunity run-stopper, but I don't really know.

You've inspired me to track my errors so I can reveal any trends..and work on them. Thanks for the inspiration.

I'll start tonight, I have a 14.1 league match!
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. I'll be curious to hear the findings and especially what conclusions you draw from tracking your misses. As I said, I'm sure that the true answer is not always the most obvious.
 
Ratta

Ratta

Hearing the balls.....
Silver Member
Hussa,

imho, if we re talkin here about 14.1, the concentration is the most dangerous part of the game (i mean, if we re talking about a bit advanced players). It s extremly hard to find the *right* way to do higher runs. Nobody is able to keep his concentration permanently high for a long time. That is the reason why the rythm and pre-stroke-routines are the most underestimated points by far.
I try to tell/teach students (usualy more than they want :p) how imporant the pre-stroke-routines and the rythm are for pool-billiard..and especially on 14.1 continues. As i shown up, usualy noone is able to concentrate for that large amount of time- and further i say and pray-it is not really necessary! You just have to pay concentration when you have all informations about your next balls and position etc., then you re going down into your stance and you ll start with your *job*. If you ve done your pre-strokes until the *Point of no Return* your concentration have to be there for 100 percent until your stroke is finished- nothin more and nothin less. This can be trained wonderful in training and even so in training-matche- i recommend the students/friends everytime,that they shouldn t fear to talk with each other during their game-also if they re running around the table to get their plans and informations. This show them in the best way that they really just have to pay full concentration when they re going down for the stroke-and this is about 20-30 seconds (average of course-some are faster).

The pre-stroke-routine is in my eyes the most important thing on billiards- during the set-pause-finish you re *alone* in the room- in best way you feel nothin and nothin could disturb you until you finished your stroke. If you re able to do this......your game will increase dramatically under pressure (league, tournament etc)


lg from overseas,

Ingo
 
Hank

Hank

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Too much ball movement

I took a 2 hour 14.1 lesson from RAY MARTIN yesterday.I have way to much ball movement in my game.He would have me say my plan of attack,then show be why he would go about it his way.SO simple when you see it.KEEP IT SIMPLE!! The less ball movement the better your ball runs will be.Lots of bad habits need to be broken on my part.Going to get a cam-recorder today.GETTING SERIOUS>>HANK<<
 
DogsPlayingPool

DogsPlayingPool

"What's in your wallet?"
Silver Member
Hank said:
I took a 2 hour 14.1 lesson from RAY MARTIN yesterday.I have way to much ball movement in my game.He would have me say my plan of attack,then show be why he would go about it his way.SO simple when you see it.KEEP IT SIMPLE!! The less ball movement the better your ball runs will be.Lots of bad habits need to be broken on my part.Going to get a cam-recorder today.GETTING SERIOUS>>HANK<<
Click to expand...

This is very interesting. I was playing Dave Hemmah at the Swanee last year. I'd never met the man. After the match (one guess who won :() we were chatting and he said to me "You're a straight pool player, aren't you?" I said that as a matter of fact I am but no one has ever inferred that before from simply watching me play 9 Ball, so I asked him how he figured that out. He rattled off several things he saw, one of which was he noticed I chose simple patterns and minimized my cue ball movement.

I said to myself "Now there is an insightful guy". So now I take lessons from him. ;)
 
DogsPlayingPool

DogsPlayingPool

"What's in your wallet?"
Silver Member
Ratta said:
Hussa,

imho, if we re talkin here about 14.1, the concentration is the most dangerous part of the game (i mean, if we re talking about a bit advanced players). It s extremly hard to find the *right* way to do higher runs. Nobody is able to keep his concentration permanently high for a long time. That is the reason why the rythm and pre-stroke-routines are the most underestimated points by far.
I try to tell/teach students (usualy more than they want :p) how imporant the pre-stroke-routines and the rythm are for pool-billiard..and especially on 14.1 continues. As i shown up, usualy noone is able to concentrate for that large amount of time- and further i say and pray-it is not really necessary! You just have to pay concentration when you have all informations about your next balls and position etc., then you re going down into your stance and you ll start with your *job*. If you ve done your pre-strokes until the *Point of no Return* your concentration have to be there for 100 percent until your stroke is finished- nothin more and nothin less. This can be trained wonderful in training and even so in training-matche- i recommend the students/friends everytime,that they shouldn t fear to talk with each other during their game-also if they re running around the table to get their plans and informations. This show them in the best way that they really just have to pay full concentration when they re going down for the stroke-and this is about 20-30 seconds (average of course-some are faster).

The pre-stroke-routine is in my eyes the most important thing on billiards- during the set-pause-finish you re *alone* in the room- in best way you feel nothin and nothin could disturb you until you finished your stroke. If you re able to do this......your game will increase dramatically under pressure (league, tournament etc)


lg from overseas,

Ingo
Click to expand...

Good stuff, Ingo. I recall Jack Nicklaus talking about this in an instruction book he wrote. He was saying that it is impossible to concentrate for the entire 4+ hours it takes to play a round of golf. The key is to concentrate when it counts. He said you do this by relaxing the mind between shots. As you are walking to your ball enjoy the sights and sounds of the outdoors and the companionship of your friends. But when you get to your ball and pull a club, that's when to channel your focus, go through your pre-shot routine, and pull the trigger. Once the ball is gone you can't do anything about it so relax again until it is time to focus once more.
 
DogsPlayingPool

DogsPlayingPool

"What's in your wallet?"
Silver Member
Dave Nelson said:
Usually, by missing an easy shot.

Dave Nelson
Click to expand...

This happens to a lot of us. I've looked at this and obviously when I miss an easy shot it is not my potting skills that need work - I certainly don't need to shoot that same easy shot over & over 'til I make it 1,000 times in a row.

The cause of this miss, for me, is losing focus. I know that's a catch all, but in this case I've identified the specific reason I lose focus on easy shots. I would say that the vast majority of the time it is because when I am down on the shot I am thinking too much about position on the next ball. I know this not only because I'm trying to be more aware of my misses, but because very often when I miss an easy shot I didn't see where it missed. This is because as soon as I pull the trigger (or worse yet, probably before I make contact) I've taken my eyes off the shot to see where the cue ball is going to end up.

I've reduced these kinds of misses by realizing up front that I may be facing this kind of situation. If I have a relatively easy pot but that has a difficult or critical position component to it, I try to be aware of this up front and make a mental note to stand up if I'm thinking "shape". So I focus on the shape standing up (speed, tip placement, etc.). As I get down on the ball I take one quick look at the position route and the spot I want the cue ball to finish (this mentally sets my speed and reinforces my decision about tip placement). Then I make special care to focus on the contact point. If I'm still thinking about the shape at that point, I get up off the shot and start over. I also try to be more conscious of following the OB into the pocket after the stroke is made in these situations.

Hope this helps.
 
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D

Dave Nelson

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Doggs

Thanks for the reply. I agree with every bit of it. How many times have I missed a shot because I was uncertain when I shot it. How many times have I told myself after the shot, dummy, if you had got up and started over you might have made that shot? And not knowing which way I missed because I had looked away as I was shooting.

You post was an excellent reminder of these things and I appreciate it.

Dave Nelson
 
14-1StraightMan

14-1StraightMan

High Run 127
Silver Member
All great points

All the above listed comments are great points that we all need to work on. I do believe in my case, not only do I make these listed mistakes & many other ones on ending runs but I believe it is the lack of getting out and playing any type of pool games. Experience is such a big part of building up one's conference. I wish that I lived near a "real" pool room with players that enjoyed 14.1 Those of you that do have that situation are very lucky and I hope that you realize it.
 
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