Dr. Dave: English

7stud

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In his video "Top 10 Pool Shots Every Player Must Know!!!", Dr. Dave lists the #2 shot as knowing how to use English. In the video, Dr. Dave gives examples of each of the following types of shots:



  • 1. right English (1:30)
    2. left English (11:00)
    3. running English (8:30)
    4. reverse English (10:30)
    5. outside English (8:30)
    6. inside English (11:00)
(Cue ball aim point in parentheses)

I think I know that right English and left English are absolute terms, while running/outside English and reverse/inside are relative terms--in other words reverse English could be right or left English depending on the position of the CB and OB. And, it seems to me that running English is the same as outside English, likewise reverse English is the same as inside English. However, Dr. Dave's presentation seems to imply that there are six different types of English. Based on my understanding, I think I could state that there are only two types of English: outside English and inside English. Is my understanding correct, or am I overlooking something?

Thanks.
 
Last edited:

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... , while running/outside English and reverse/inside are relative terms--in other words reverse English could be right or left English depending on the position of the CB and OB. And, it seems to me that running English is the same as outside English, likewise reverse English is the same as inside English. ... or am I overlooking something?
...
Running refers to how the cue ball rubs on the cushion. Running makes the ball go faster and more parallel to the cushion after contact. Running has nothing to do with the object ball. Reverse is the opposite of running.

Inside and outside refer to how the cue ball rubs on the object ball. If you have right side spin on a cut to the right, it is inside english. There are three other cases for inside/outside/left/right.
 

7stud

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Running refers to how the cue ball rubs on the cushion. Running makes the ball go faster and more parallel to the cushion after contact. Running has nothing to do with the object ball. Reverse is the opposite of running.

Inside and outside refer to how the cue ball rubs on the object ball. If you have right side spin on a cut to the right, it is inside english. There are three other cases for inside/outside/left/right.

Ah, I see. You can hit the cue ball with inside English, yet that same English can be running English when it hits the cushion. For instance:

pool1.jpeg


Thanks!
 
Last edited:

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Running refers to how the cue ball rubs on the cushion. Running makes the ball go faster and more parallel to the cushion after contact. Running has nothing to do with the object ball. Reverse is the opposite of running.

Inside and outside refer to how the cue ball rubs on the object ball. If you have right side spin on a cut to the right, it is inside english. There are three other cases for inside/outside/left/right.
I've never understood why we need separate names for the same types of spin interactions on different surfaces.

How is running english on a rail different from outside english on a ball?

Isn't inside english on a ball the same as reverse english on a rail?

What more descriptive terms could apply to both?

How about accelerating and braking spin?

pj
chgo
 

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
A simpler generalization of the above statements is

shooting off center and level (cue parallel to table)

vs shooting off center and angled (cue not parallel to table)

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In his video "Top 10 Pool Shots Every Player Must Know!!!", Dr. Dave lists the #2 shot as knowing how to use English. In the video, Dr. Dave gives examples of each of the following types of shots:



  • 1. right English (1:30)
    2. left English (11:00)
    3. running English (8:30)
    4. reverse English (10:30)
    5. outside English (8:30)
    6. inside English (11:00)
(Cue ball aim point in parentheses)

I think I know that right English and left English are absolute terms, while running/outside English and reverse/inside are relative terms--in other words reverse English could be right or left English depending on the position of the CB and OB. And, it seems to me that running English is the same as outside English, likewise reverse English is the same as inside English. However, Dr. Dave's presentation seems to imply that there are six different types of English. Based on my understanding, I think I could state that there are only two types of English: outside English and inside English. Is my understanding correct, or am I overlooking something?

Thanks.
 
Last edited:

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ah, i see. You can hit the cue ball with inside english, yet that same english can be running english when it hits the cushion. For instance:

d21c1.png



thanks!

Yes. If for instance that same shot were closer to the end rail and oriented so the cue ball contacts that rail before the side rail, then the ball would be struck with inside while the cushion action would be reverse.

Seems safe to say that inside english is always contact side of ball collisions and outside english is always exit side. I get dyslexic when I try to connect those properties with subsequent running or reverse effects. Is there concise language regarding these effects; a set of rules that don't require explaining or diagramming the whole shot?
 

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
Yes. If for instance that same shot were closer to the end rail and oriented so the cue ball contacts that rail before the side rail, then the ball would be struck with inside while the cushion action would be reverse.

Seems safe to say that inside english is always contact side of ball collisions and outside english is always exit side. I get dyslexic when I try to connect those properties with subsequent running or reverse effects. Is there concise language regarding these effects; a set of rules that don't require explaining or diagramming the whole shot?

I need 6 hours for decent translation, but I will volunteer my services.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I've never understood why we need separate names for the same types of spin interactions on different surfaces.
...
Because it's totally confusing to use the same word for both. The effects are quite different.

The UKers say "check side" for inside english, but it's also "check side" when the same cue ball gets to the cushion and it's running english.

Running and reverse were probably used early on in the US due to the influence of carom and especially 3-cushion. I think "inside" and "outside" originated much later, like in the 1950s to 1970s.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Even odd? That can't be right. There are running paths going out to 11 rails. Multiple rails sideways reverse on each contact. Consecutive contacts on the same cushion don't apply either. Or is it the rule that doesn't apply? etc...
 

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
Even odd? That can't be right. There are running paths going out to 11 rails. Multiple rails sideways reverse on each contact. Consecutive contacts on the same cushion don't apply either. Or is it the rule that doesn't apply? etc...

alert dr dave peer review has failed.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
See chalkysticks diagram above where striking the cue ball with inside English produces running English on the rail.
Nitpick: I think you mean striking the object ball with inside english (you’d strike the cue ball with simple left or right).

My point is why not call the sequence in the diagram inside english on the object ball and then outside english on the rail? Or reverse english on the ball and running english on the rail. Why have four terms for two types of spin interaction?

I think it would be more instructive to name the interactions for their effect rather than for the objects involved.

pj
chgo
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've never understood why we need separate names for the same types of spin interactions on different surfaces.

How is running english on a rail different from outside english on a ball?

Isn't inside english on a ball the same as reverse english on a rail?

What more descriptive terms could apply to both?

How about accelerating and braking spin?

pj
chgo
If I’m not mistaken you’ve had this issue before in failing to understand that running English could be inside or outside, and reverse English could be inside or outside. It all depends on the angle the cue ball is contacting the cushion at, in relation to the spin that’s on the ball.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
In his video "Top 10 Pool Shots Every Player Must Know!!!", Dr. Dave lists the #2 shot as knowing how to use English. In the video, Dr. Dave gives examples of each of the following types of shots:



  • 1. right English (1:30)
    2. left English (11:00)
    3. running English (8:30)
    4. reverse English (10:30)
    5. outside English (8:30)
    6. inside English (11:00)
(Cue ball aim point in parentheses)

I think I know that right English and left English are absolute terms, while running/outside English and reverse/inside are relative terms--in other words reverse English could be right or left English depending on the position of the CB and OB. And, it seems to me that running English is the same as outside English, likewise reverse English is the same as inside English. However, Dr. Dave's presentation seems to imply that there are six different types of English. Based on my understanding, I think I could state that there are only two types of English: outside English and inside English. Is my understanding correct, or am I overlooking something?

Thanks.
There are only two types of sidespin: left and right. As others have pointed out, sidespin is given different names based on the direction relative to the cut (inside or outside) and how it interacts on the first cushion (natural/running or reverse/check). All of this is illustrated and demonstrated in detail in this video:

SIDESPIN ... Everything You Need to Know

Check it out,
Dave
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
If I’m not mistaken you’ve had this issue before in failing to understand that running English could be inside or outside, and reverse English could be inside or outside. It all depends on the angle the cue ball is contacting the cushion at, in relation to the spin that’s on the ball.
I’ve always understood all of that. My issue, then and now, is with the different terminology for ball/ball (outside/inside) vs. ball/rail (running/reverse) interactions. They mean the same things, so why the different terms? Yes, inside on a ball can then be running on a rail - why isn’t it outside on the rail? (Actually, I’d prefer we use running/reverse for both - more descriptive.)

pj
chgo
 
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dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
There are only two types of sidespin: left and right. As others have pointed out, sidespin is given different names based on the direction relative to the cut (inside or outside) and how it interacts on the first cushion (natural/running or reverse/check). All of this is illustrated and demonstrated in detail in this video:

SIDESPIN ... Everything You Need to Know

Check it out,
Dave
FYI, the illustrations and videos on the Sidespin Tutorial page might also be helpful. Here is one showing that inside spin can be either left or right, and it can also be natural/running or reverse/check, all on the same cut shot:

English_running_reverse.jpg

Regards,
Dave
 
Last edited:

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
FYI, the illustrations and videos on the Sidespin Tutorial page might also be helpful. Here is one showing that inside spin can be either left or right, and it can also be natural/running or reverse/check, all on the same cut shot:

English_running_reverse.jpg

Regards,
Dave
The top shot can be referred to as "running inside follow" and the bottom shot can be described as "reverse inside draw." I like descriptive terms like this because they clearly define the shot.

Regards,
Dave
 
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