Online Storefronts - Absurdly annoying

MikeH · Sep 3, 2006

Maybe I am just goofy or in a bad mood but I think it is annoying to have people use our Wanted/For Sale forum as an online storefront for their production cues.

There are many who sell production cues as well as turn around custom cues in addition to contributing greatly to the forums as a whole (i.e. Chrisonline and his J&J stock) and I have no problem with that.

What I do find utterly annoying is JohnDoe coming on here to repeatedly let us know about their great E-bay specials on (insert crappy production cues here).

Of course it could just be that time of the month for me and maybe some chocolate is what I need to get through my manstration?

-Mike

asiasdad · Sep 3, 2006

I agree, and usually the storefront pricing is out of line with what is really happening

TheBook · Sep 3, 2006

It is easy to sift the sh!t from the sand. I just ignore them. I think they feel that they discovered a bonanza and think that we will get in line to buy from them. If they read the post they would realize that most AZ'ers are not into the production stuff and if they are they will buy from a contributor to the forum.

Panhdlce · Sep 8, 2006

I agree and if this trend continues and worsens, I'm outa here......

joeboxer · Sep 8, 2006

Yes it is very annoying. I'm new to this site and i'm already discouraged by it all. But if youre gonna include one, then you have to include them all, even the never ending J&J stock thread. Cause they are all equally annoying when they're constantly being "bumped" to the top. This is just "first impression" observation from a new poster.

Jeff · Sep 8, 2006

Here's my two cents

Not everyone wants, needs, or can afford an $800 (and above) cue so I like seeing production cues for sale or trade.....although I understand it can be annoying when the poster is just here to plug his ebay ads.

I have noticed that people trying to sell lower end cues on here are treated differently than the people selling the Gina's and Tad's etc. Not always, but more often than I like to see.

Maybe an idea would be to have a seperate section for people selling production cues.

Or a section for selling cues $500 and under.

spankman8 · Sep 8, 2006

Jeff said:
Here's my two cents

Not everyone wants, needs, or can afford an $800 (and above) cue so I like seeing production cues for sale or trade.....although I understand it can be annoying when the poster is just here to plug his ebay ads.
QUOTE]

Agreed, not everyone can afford or wants the high end cues. If that was the case then production companies would be out of bussiness.

But it seems like the people that "HAVE" got the money for the high end custom cues are the ones complaining about this. Also I guess its wrong for people to come on here and put WTB (such and such production cue) I guess that is wrong in your alls eyes too huh?

Yea ive had some great transactions with many AZ members in production cues. Also another thing is, if it wasnt for people selling production cases I guess many people would be carrying cues in their hands instead of something to protect them huh? Cause your average joe isnt going to want to pay upwards of $600-$700 for a custom case.

If it wasnt for production cues then the pool players would be cut by about 85-90% cause only about 10-15% of the pool players actually play with a custom cue, and the ones that do more than likely started with a production cue/and or still has a production cue they play with.

KOINNKID · Sep 8, 2006

I agree with Spankman8. Anyways isn't this a Wanted/For sale area section of the PUBLIC forum anyways.

wjpjr · Sep 8, 2006

I think this is a Pool forum NOT Joe Blows Private Billiard room !! If folks want to take the time to post pic's and type out info let them ..... After all the name is A to Z Billiards I think that covers everything from A to Z ????? Just my $.02 worth.......... Bill

poolplayer2093 · Sep 8, 2006

i own a couple of custom cues, but i still really like certan production cues and if someone can get me a good price on one i'm always looking to save a little.

MikeH · Sep 8, 2006

Agreed, not everyone can afford or wants the high end cues. If that was the case then production companies would be out of bussiness.

No one has any issues with people selling production cues, the annoyance I find is when Joe Blow from Flea Bay either comes here and makes 10 seperate posts about how he is a powerseller...etc...etc...etc and continuously bumps the 10 posts every 2 hours or he hijacks peoples WTS threads with the aforementioned posts.

FYI: My guess is 98%-99% of AZ forum members know how to type www.ebay.com into the address line of their browser and use the search feature once there.

Also I guess its wrong for people to come on here and put WTB (such and such production cue) I guess that is wrong in your alls eyes too huh?

Like trying to talk to a 3 year old Spankman8, do I really need to respond to this?

Yea ive had some great transactions with many AZ members in production cues.

One word.... RAFFLE

Also another thing is, if it wasnt for people selling production cases I guess many people would be carrying cues in their hands instead of something to protect them huh? Cause your average joe isnt going to want to pay upwards of $600-$700 for a custom case.

This thread isn't about whether people should buy custom or production, I will break it down for you since you don't seem to understand. It is about the people that come here and continuously SPAM the forums with their e-bay adds.

Note: Countless cases can be had for exponentially less that $600-$700, adding crazy numbers such as this when it doesn't even pertain to the topic adds 0 validity to your post.

If it wasnt for production cues then the pool players would be cut by about 85-90% cause only about 10-15% of the pool players actually play with a custom cue, and the ones that do more than likely started with a production cue/and or still has a production cue they play with.

I always find it comical when people make up %ages and try and pass it off as fact. If you are going to throw numbers out there use words like:

My guess is that _____ people use....
I think that around ______ people use....

Again though what does this have to do with forum spamming? Naught.

Of course this is all just highly biased opinion on my part.

-Mike

ChrisOnline · Sep 8, 2006

i myself.. have been a az member since 2004... i spend about 3 hours+ every day on the forum.. i read just about every post.. and reply and take part in every conversation i can.. i enjoy the forum, for the people i have met, for the love of pool, and for the enjoyment of the conversation...

i do buy and sell alot here on the forum, i think it has a great atmosphere where alot of people stick tother and there are alot of good things that come about it.. even though there are dissagreements from time to time..

i also see both sides of this.. i didnt start buying and selling till january of this year.. and yes.. i sell quite abit here on the forum.. not as much on ebay.. i feel i can pass along some good deals and great service and help the forum on many levels, and keep people safe from the scam artist's that flood ebay in this present day... so i buy what people would like to have.. i just dont sell anything.. i also try not to sell what other people on the forum are selling.. and if i do see something that another member is selling, i try to help them out, post pics, help with their reviews, and also tell other members about it that could possibly be interested in what i see...

i understand that its not that people who have buisnesses use the forum..
its the users, who come here and try and make quick sales and dont put any hard work into the forum..

to me, i feel the forum should come first... and you will see me take an active part in every part of the forum that i can.. and yes.. i would like to continue to help everybody here that i can...

one thing that i have always thought ( i belong to a big yamaha motorcycle forum) and they have guidelines to their posting things for sale.. they dont let any user sell stuff that hasnt been a member for atleast 3 months.. and also, they require that a member has to have a certain post count before they let them sell... i think that would be a good rule to inact here...

and last, like i said before.. i do sell alot on the forum, but then most of the money i may make, i do support many other people on the forum, wether they are cue dealers, cue makers, private people, or other buisnesses, when i first joined the forum, i had 1 custom cue and 1 jump break.. now i have several cues, that i am proud to own, and have learned many many things about every area of "BILLIARDS"... and i am PROUD to say, i have made MANY MANY friends and i am glad to have everyone of them...

i am also thankfull for the people that support me here.. and very greatfull to have a forum like this to enjoy!

thank you for letting me speak my peace(sp?) AZ!

Chris

spankman8 · Sep 8, 2006

Well Mike, for one im sorry but you have precieved me wrong. There is no way that I can change that in your mind. But im as honest as they come. Thats why I have repeat customers coming back to me for cues and cases and accessories.

Im sorry that you feel that way about me as I cant change that. All I can do is continue to be myself and keep from bashing people like most people would in my situation. Cause im not here to cause problems, im not here to make enemies. I just wanna make people happy and let them know they can get a good deal on a cue, just like chris is doing. He treats everyone great and gives great deals.

But as for the ebay thing I do agree, it is kind of wrong for people to advertise their ebay store on here. I dont like to push my site on here that much myself. I just make a post here and there and bump it about once a day myself. As im not here for the money, im here for the pooplayers and like, just like Chris.

But I wlil say this is an open forum to the public, and it is AZ and also wanted/for sale. I agree some people take advantage of it sometimes. But hey thats life and its a public forum.

Also as for my %'s yea your right mike I should have said in my opinion, but I read that somewhere a while back on the internet about the 85-90% is the reason I put that there. I'm sorry if that offended you didnt mean for it to. Also the prices I put on the cases was for a nice custom 2x4,3x6 case from a well known case maker for a new one. Sorry for any confusion on that.

MikeH · Sep 8, 2006

Don't get me wrong I am all for people selling anything they want here (pool related) including production cues...it isn't my site, even if I wasn't for it I cant change the rules.

However, I see no reason why someone can't make 1 post to their Flea Bay auctions and bump it every day or two, that way the interested parties can see it and those that aren't dont have to weed through the SPAM.

I love this site, I spend countless hours at work when it is slow (which seems to be most days as of late) just browsing around and getting my billiard fix. I value everyone's contributions to the content in each forum and don't want to alienate anyone or discourage them from posting, I would simply prefer that those whom are here simply to promote their Flea Bay auctions do it in a reasonable manner, or is that too much to ask for?

-Mike

jazznpool · Sep 8, 2006

One cool thing about AZB is there is good deal of freedom here. Out of respect for the forum I try to pace my ads and ad bumping. I realize others see it differently or maybe some don't really care so they will bump ads multiple times per day...although I can deal with it, that is annoying to me! Since I've been posting on the wanted/for sale section, it has become more of a free for all atmosphere--especially during the last few months. It will be interesting to see where it goes. I hope it doesn't self-destruct.

Martin

MikeH said:
Don't get me wrong I am all for people selling anything they want here (pool related) including production cues...it isn't my site, even if I wasn't for it I cant change the rules.

However, I see no reason why someone can't make 1 post to their Flea Bay auctions and bump it every day or two, that way the interested parties can see it and those that aren't dont have to weed through the SPAM.

I love this site, I spend countless hours at work when it is slow (which seems to be most days as of late) just browsing around and getting my billiard fix. I value everyone's contributions to the content in each forum and don't want to alienate anyone or discourage them from posting, I would simply prefer that those whom are here simply to promote their Flea Bay auctions do it in a reasonable manner, or is that too much to ask for?

-Mike

Hal · Sep 9, 2006

I don't mind seeing the store front threads. What I do mind is people doing 5 or 6 threads and then bumping them all several times each day. Just do one thread. People will read it.

manwon · Sep 9, 2006

MikeH said:
Maybe I am just goofy or in a bad mood but I think it is annoying to have people use our Wanted/For Sale forum as an online storefront for their production cues.

There are many who sell production cues as well as turn around custom cues in addition to contributing greatly to the forums as a whole (i.e. Chrisonline and his J&J stock) and I have no problem with that.

What I do find utterly annoying is JohnDoe coming on here to repeatedly let us know about their great E-bay specials on (insert crappy production cues here).

Of course it could just be that time of the month for me and maybe some chocolate is what I need to get through my manstration?

-Mike

Hey Mike, I think that you are making a good and valid point. People do use this site to move their merchandise, especially when their sales on Ebay are poor. I think that I am going to provoke some negative responses from what I am about to post, but I sleep good and if the shoe fits wear it, the truth is the truth.

Most of these sellers do not have any overhead because they are not brick and mortar retailers (They are operating from their homes or from the trunk of their car's).

They sell items for a few dollars above cost, which devalues the products for the manufacturer and other honest sellers trying to make a full time living from retail sales.

The devaluation of products also effects pool room owners, we can not rely only on sales of food, alcohol, cue repairs, and table rental for the income necessary to keep the lights on. Room owners must also sell billiard related items to make a profit.

Ebay use to be a great forum for billiard equipment sales. Then came the nit's, these people do not own a store, have no overhead, and will sell item's for a few dollars over wholesale, depending on volume and shipping rip offs to make a profit.

Well fast forward three to four years in the future, the nit's have ruined ebay. Decent production cues are so under valued that competition has all but ended there.

Now you have a group of individuals with an excess of production billiards equipment. Ebay is too tough these day's for the smaller fish, so they have moved on to other markets, and the process of destruction continues.

This is where the influx of production billiards supplies is coming from here on AZ Billiards.

But Mike all hope is not lost, the billiard equipment manufacturers are placing bounties on the heads of these individuals. They are very tired of their products being devalued. They are offering their dealers rewards for reporting abuse of product pricing.

I can tell you, that this crap will not go on much longer here. The following companies are watching this site and going through the archive for advertisements of products below the specified cost of the manufacturer.

1. Judy - J&J America

2. Michael - Imperial Billiards

3. John - McDermott

4. Steve - Cue & Case

These are a few of the people watching this site.

When these people are identified, they will be asked to prove that hey have a store, ie a copy of their lease, photographs, listing in phone books, and on and on. Those who are in violation will lose their right to purchase items wholesale, which will end this problem.

This hurts the entire billiard industry long term, and it is a problem that I think will get better now that the manufacturers are really beginning to police this industry.

Mike I suspect that you problem will be solved very shortly here on AZ Billiards.

manwon

ATH · Sep 9, 2006

The reason i like AZ so much is the fact that it is a little different from all the other forums, this in regard to that the users like customs more and most also have a great deal of experience to share. It bothers me and annoys me that some people use the forum as a "sale" forum for cheap cues and push them so hard that a lot of other posts disappear in all the bumbing from these people. I have no problem with a single ad or a couple post from a person but when i comes apparent that they are using this and other forums as cheap advertising it makes me mad. To me, it makes the forum seem unprofessional and makes it look messy and boring. There are to many forums out there who has fallen because the forum has been taken over by un serious people who push the serious posters away, it would be sad if this were to happen here to.

manwon · Sep 9, 2006

ATH said:
The reason i like AZ so much is the fact that it is a little different from all the other forums, this in regard to that the users like customs more and most also have a great deal of experience to share. It bothers me and annoys me that some people use the forum as a "sale" forum for cheap cues and push them so hard that a lot of other posts disappear in all the bumbing from these people. I have no problem with a single ad or a couple post from a person but when i comes apparent that they are using this and other forums as cheap advertising it makes me mad. To me, it makes the forum seem unprofessional and makes it look messy and boring. There are to many forums out there who has fallen because the forum has been taken over by un serious people who push the serious posters away, it would be sad if this were to happen here to.

Very Good point, but I think that if each forum was separate and not emptying into the main the forum that would not be a problem.

manwon

CAMCUES · Sep 9, 2006

I am new to this forum thing and I can say one thing
I fell bad about bumping a for sale add for my custom cues all 3 I have listed but because of the mad POSTING or BUMPING a new add listed is off first page in 1 hour or less most the time so I will bump A few times and then I let them go as a courtsey to the other sellers.Would there be a way to seperate or just have a section for Custom Cues for sale only and let the production and ebay sellers have the current wanted and for sale section I don't know if thats possible but Just my 2 cents . I do and have enjoyed this forum and think everyone ebayers and online stores should be able to post but they should hopefully read threads like this and get a hint and people here should make it a point not to buy from those types if you don't like how they conduct business.

Online Storefronts - Absurdly annoying

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