One Pocket

Tin Man · Jun 30, 2020

bank clearance?

Bob Jewett said:
Since there seems to be some confusion, I have redrawn the diagram showing the path of the five ball to the OP's pocket with the table markings in the correct orientation.

I have further clarified the drawing by showing the 2 ball which was omitted from the original drawing for simplicity. The 2 ball obviously makes the 1 rail shot much more difficult.

So.... The OP's question actually was: "What is the best way to play the 5 ball three cushions as shown to go along more or less the indicated path to the indicated pocket?"

View attachment 551808

Bob, you'll have to try harder, I still think the one rail bank is available by twisting the object ball and drawing rail first into the 2 ball to clear the path...

OK, maybe not quite, but I'm trying to dig my heels in.

Bob Jewett · Jun 30, 2020

Tin Man said:
.. I still think the one rail bank is available by twisting the object ball and drawing rail first into the 2 ball to clear the path...

Of course that will run into the 7-13-14 cluster by the side pocket, which was omitted due to sloth. And no, the 13-14 is not a dead two-rail combo bank to the OP's pocket. It runs into the 6 ball after the second rail.

Bob <-- I hope the bases are covered now, all 23 of them.

lfigueroa · Jun 30, 2020

I'm mildly dyslexic.

Reading what I posted earlier today, what I meant to say was I'd hit it a hair to the outside v thinner.

Lou Figueroa

Patrick Johnson · Jun 30, 2020

lfigueroa said:
I'm thinking that no english would be best from this angle.

I'd just hit the ball a little *more* than full, with speed being the most important variable.

You mean cut it slightly longer, right? That looks right to me. If the OB is far enough from the long rail to be rolling when it hits it, then straight on (with no side) might be the shot.

pj <- take that to the bank
chgo

SHORTY WRIGHT · Jun 30, 2020

Correct .... Bob

iusedtoberich · Jun 30, 2020

I’m a banger...

Going by Bobs picture, I think you have to cut the 5 a hair to the right, and hit it with low right spin. Pocket speed 3 rails. This is on a standard GC with Simonis.

pt109 · Jun 30, 2020

iusedtoberich said:
I’m a banger...

Going by Bobs picture, I think you have to cut the 5 a hair to the right, and hit it with low right spin. Pocket speed 3 rails. This is on a standard GC with Simonis.

That’s how I’m playing it...3 rails with right english. The right puts a hair of run on the object ball...
...what the billiard players call natural english.

No one railer for me....the object ball is just smidgen over a ball’s width off the long rail.
For me, it’s gotta be over two ball’s width from the long rail for me to one-rail it.
Even then, I’m 3-railing it...you’ll leave far less aggressive return shots...you only leave
a bank back if you miss long and too hard.

maha · Jun 30, 2020

if you are hitting it firm hit it about directly across from the first diamond. natural 3 rails to the corner. move up a little for some longer playing tables.
no english needed or a little running english.

ghost ball · Jun 30, 2020

My first step for the 3 railer would be to find the spot on the wall.

iusedtoberich · Jul 1, 2020

Btw, unfortunately that is a bastard size table picture. It’s not a 9’ table. It wouldn’t be possible to set the shot up as shown on a real 9’ table. That’s my huge pet peeve on many of the table diagram tools. They are not true size. I even emailed a few of them years ago and they never fixed them.

lfigueroa · Jul 1, 2020

Patrick Johnson said:
You mean cut it slightly longer, right? That looks right to me. If the OB is far enough from the long rail to be rolling when it hits it, then straight on (with no side) might be the shot.

pj <- take that to the bank
chgo

Yes.

Lou Figueroa

Patrick Johnson · Jul 1, 2020

iusedtoberich said:
Btw, unfortunately that is a bastard size table picture. It’s not a 9’ table. It wouldn’t be possible to set the shot up as shown on a real 9’ table. That’s my huge pet peeve on many of the table diagram tools. They are not true size. I even emailed a few of them years ago and they never fixed them.

I suppose you mean the balls pictured are too big for a 9-foot table...

- if the balls are to scale (2 1/4"), then the table's playing area is 40" x 80" (a large 7-footer)
- if the table's a 9-footer (50" x 100"), then the balls shown are oversized (almost 3" diameter).

But I don't know why that would change the bank angles...?

pj
chgo

Black-Balled · Jul 1, 2020

But that 3railer can be made with any english or none...with no choice being more 'right' than any other.

iusedtoberich · Jul 1, 2020

To pat: the wrong size table affects all the diagrams, with respect to ball clearance from ball to ball (as in a cluster) or ball to rail.

In banking specific situations, the object ball to rail distance is super important, when it is a small distance.

So in this diagram for example, if you were going to try the shot on a 9’ table, one placement option is to place the real balls according to the center of each ball and the diamond markers on the diagram. That would move the OB much further from the rail then shown.

The diagram creaters spent so much programming time on these tables, and yet did not get the most fundamental thing correct: the size.

Bob Jewett · Jul 1, 2020

iusedtoberich said:
... The diagram creaters spent so much programming time on these tables, and yet did not get the most fundamental thing correct: the size.

It is sad how many people don't understand the value of scale drawings. There are shot diagrams where the balls in relation to the table are the size of basketballs. They sort of give the idea of what the author might have meant.

One of the things that makes Byrne's books valuable is that he got the diagrams right. Martin's book could have been a lot better if he had done the same, either in the original or in the 30th anniversary edition. Harry Sims' balls are an extreme example, and for a game (carom) where millimeters can be critical:

And he got the ball paths wrong.

One Pocket

Tin Man

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