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Cue Ball Damage/Break Cue
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Island Drive
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Cue Ball Damage/Break Cue - 07-11-2020, 07:10 AM

Had a good friend over. Cleaned the ball set before play. Week later again, found permanent scratches in the New Belgium red circle that's 3 mths old. The scratches....There were 7 scrape lines, side by side in a row, like a mini pallet. After 4 + hr's play, the cue ball was not like it used to be. He came over again and I asked em to use another shaft with a different break tip. His shaft had not tip, it was part of the shaft, just round at the end.


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ChrisinNC
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07-11-2020, 07:56 AM

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Originally Posted by Island Drive View Post
Had a good friend over. Cleaned the ball set before play. Week later again, found permanent scratches in the New Belgium red circle that's 3 mths old. The scratches....There were 7 scrape lines, side by side in a row, like a mini pallet. After 4 + hr's play, the cue ball was not like it used to be. He came over again and I asked em to use another shaft with a different break tip. His shaft had not tip, it was part of the shaft, just round at the end.
That’s what you call a phenolic shaft/tip, that you see on a lot of break cues and jump cues. They are known to result in half moon shaped permanent scars on your cue ball, particularly if the player using it breaks very hard and strikes off center of the cue ball on his breaks.

If it is your own table and balls, you have every right to ask him not to use that cue to break with, or to bring his own cue ball with him to use when he breaks. An even easier solution to not risk any hard feelings, just purchase another new red circle Cue ball and use the scarred up one when this gentleman comes over to play with you!

Last edited by ChrisinNC; 07-11-2020 at 08:31 AM.
  
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07-11-2020, 08:22 AM

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Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
Thatís what you call a phenolic shaft/tip, that you see on a lot of break cues and jump cues. They are known to result in half moon shaped permanent scars on your cue ball, particularly if the player using it breaks very hard and strikes off center of the cue ball on his breaks.

If it is your own table and balls, you have every right to ask him not to use that cue to break with, or to bring his own cue ball with him to use when he breaks.

Hereís a curve ball to that theory; no one has ever checked for a cue ball half moon crack when itís just the cue stick striking the cue ball. Itís always after the cue ball has struck the rack. Anecdotal evidence is to not be trusted. A cue stick hitting a stationary cue ball imparts at best a 3x weight implied impact. When the cue ball is hitting the rack, it is seeing an up to 15x weight implied difference. Hard to explain but when the cue ball hits the rack, the forces there should be 5x greater than when the cue stick hits the cue ball.
  
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07-11-2020, 08:40 AM

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Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
Hereís a curve ball to that theory; no one has ever checked for a cue ball half moon crack when itís just the cue stick striking the cue ball. Itís always after the cue ball has struck the rack. Anecdotal evidence is to not be trusted. A cue stick hitting a stationary cue ball imparts at best a 3x weight implied impact. When the cue ball is hitting the rack, it is seeing an up to 15x weight implied difference. Hard to explain but when the cue ball hits the rack, the forces there should be 5x greater than when the cue stick hits the cue ball.
I personally canít buy that argument. If that was the case, it wouldnít be a half moon shaped mark but would be a completely circular scar, and also wouldn't that impart a virtually identical scar on the head object ball as well?
  
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07-11-2020, 08:49 AM

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Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
I personally canít buy that argument. If that was the case, it wouldnít be a half moon shaped mark but would be a completely circular scar, and also wouldn't that impart a virtually identical scar on the head object ball as well?
Assuming much? Why wouldnít a cue stick leave a full circular mark then too? And youíre not paying attention to details. Four hours of play left 7 little marks. My explanation says that there were only 7 good breaks during that 4 hours. Otherwise if it was the cue making the marks, couldnít there be 30+? Think about for a second. If there were 7 marks on the cue ball, then in four hours there were only 7 breaks done if it was the cue tip.
  
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07-11-2020, 08:54 AM

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Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
Hereís a curve ball to that theory; no one has ever checked for a cue ball half moon crack when itís just the cue stick striking the cue ball. Itís always after the cue ball has struck the rack. Anecdotal evidence is to not be trusted. A cue stick hitting a stationary cue ball imparts at best a 3x weight implied impact. When the cue ball is hitting the rack, it is seeing an up to 15x weight implied difference. Hard to explain but when the cue ball hits the rack, the forces there should be 5x greater than when the cue stick hits the cue ball.
Nope, it's the break shaft/tip. Hard phenolic tips will do, G10 even more so. The Hammerhead from Outsville doesn't do it, nor will hard leather.


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cue ball - 07-11-2020, 08:56 AM

Any cue ball that has been used for a while will show those half moon marks from impact with the rack. If you use a full leather tip for breaking, the marks still show up. Easy to prove or disprove. Start with a new cue ball and break 50 times with leather only.
Does not affect playability!!
  
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07-11-2020, 09:00 AM

How can this even be a debate? Isn’t it already well established info? Didn’t they outlaw phenolic break tips for a reason? Doesn’t everyone already know this?
  
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07-11-2020, 09:00 AM

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Originally Posted by Baxter View Post
Nope, it's the break shaft/tip. Hard phenolic tips will do, G10 even more so. The Hammerhead from Outsville doesn't do it, nor will hard leather.
Are people really this blind? The pool balls are made from a phenolic resin. The tip made from phenolic resin. Yet somehow a cue that is 5x less forceful on impact than the cb->rack force is whatís causing the half moon cracks?
  
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07-11-2020, 09:02 AM

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Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
Are people really this blind? The pool balls are made from a phenolic resin. The tip made from phenolic resin. Yet somehow a cue that is 5x less forceful on impact than the cb->rack force is whatís causing the half moon cracks?
So where all the half moon cracks on the object balls then? I haven't seen a single one.


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07-11-2020, 09:03 AM

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How can this even be a debate? Isnít it already well established info? Didnít they outlaw phenolic break tips for a reason? Doesnít everyone already know this?
Word of mouth is now established information? Whereís the actual tests showing these anecdotal claims?
  
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07-11-2020, 09:08 AM

Pretty sure those tests and results have been posted here previously, by people that are into doing it definitively. I’m not quick at the whole search and post links thing, but it’s there.
  
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07-11-2020, 09:08 AM

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So where all the half moon cracks on the object balls then? I haven't seen a single one.
Iíve seen plenty. But since no one cares enough to actually look at the evidence on hand, itís often overlooked. Youíll notice the cue ball marks because youíre actively looking at it.

Iíve broken two object balls by breaking in the last 3 months. Still havenít broken a cue ball.
  
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07-11-2020, 09:10 AM

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Pretty sure those tests and results have been posted here previously, by people that are into doing it definitively. Iím not quick at the whole search and post links thing, but itís there.
Do you understand what a test actually encompasses? That doesnít mean break a rack 50 times, find the evidence you were looking for and quitting like they did.
  
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07-11-2020, 09:10 AM

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Originally Posted by Baxter View Post
Nope, it's the break shaft/tip. Hard phenolic tips will do, G10 even more so. The Hammerhead from Outsville doesn't do it, nor will hard leather.
I had a white diamond for a short period of time.
Some kind of leather phenolic hybrid?
This one didn't leave the marks that the
phenolic tip I had did.
  
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