Idle Curiosity, Straight Eight?

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
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I was playing pool a few nights ago and somebody on the next table called me over to look at a shot. Two balls were frozen. No question of a clean hit on the ball to be pocketed but the other ball would certainly move. They were playing "straight eight" and said it would be an illegal shot if the other ball moved.

I played what they called straight eight years ago and that was silly enough, they called foul for not saying you were going to hit an inner pocket rail! Everything had to be called about a shot. This can't move another ball rule seems to have brought things to another level, I don't remember even the straight eight guys claiming that although it has been a few decades and just during a short swing north and east on a road trip that I encountered straight eight. I disliked the way they were playing enough to not venture that way again!

So is there a rule set where you can't move a ball you aren't pocketing?


Hu
 

Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
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Is there a rule you cant move a ball your not pocketing

Lol for straight 8, probably
Its not a contest of skill but of manliness didnt you know?

I actually play a straight 8 tournament on fridays but haven't heard that one
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
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I think some European variations and Chinese 8 too have some similar conditions where a ball is obstructing the hole. But calling every detail is biker rules. They often have no concept of pool except for marksmanship. Their games always go into overtime and it's all about this end game.
And they so hate losing that one game. :grin-square:
 

Bob Jewett

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I think some European variations and Chinese 8 too have some similar conditions where a ball is obstructing the hole. But calling every detail is biker rules. They often have no concept of pool except for marksmanship. Their games always go into overtime and it's all about this end game.
And they so hate losing that one game. :grin-square:

At Chinese 8 ball, it seems that you only have to call the ball and pocket, but if you make no call, the shot has to go cleanly. Cleanly in some sense.

There is a video of a Chinese 8 ball game with a short shot into a side pocket. There is no question what the player is playing. He shoots firmly, the object ball hits the back of the pocket, jumps back, hits the cue ball again and then drops in the pocket. No good, because the player did not call the pocket and something funny happened.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
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I was playing pool a few nights ago and somebody on the next table called me over to look at a shot. Two balls were frozen. No question of a clean hit on the ball to be pocketed but the other ball would certainly move. They were playing "straight eight" and said it would be an illegal shot if the other ball moved.

I played what they called straight eight years ago and that was silly enough, they called foul for not saying you were going to hit an inner pocket rail! Everything had to be called about a shot. This can't move another ball rule seems to have brought things to another level, I don't remember even the straight eight guys claiming that although it has been a few decades and just during a short swing north and east on a road trip that I encountered straight eight. I disliked the way they were playing enough to not venture that way again!

So is there a rule set where you can't move a ball you aren't pocketing?


Hu
Sounds like yet another example of backward “bar room” rules, which make absolutely no sense. These silly rules will likely never change, as long is the regulars in that establishment remain ignorant as to the common sense rules of pool, and continue to enforce them, for reasons no one can explain.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
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Official Chinese 8b rule as of 2019 require NO shot to be called. Flukes are allowed even on the 8b. With the kind of $$$ they pay out none *****es believe me. It rarely come into play. BTW, the king of cue games, money-wise anyway, is snooker and they allow flukes as well. Nobody whines about it. Part of the game.
 
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Bob Jewett

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Official Chinese 8b rule as of 2019 require NO shot to be called. Flukes are allowed even on the 8b. With the kind of $$$ they pay out none *****es believe me. It rarely come into play. BTW, the king of cue games, money-wise anyway, is snooker and they allow flukes as well. Nobody whines about it. Part of the game.

By George, you're right. It seems to have been changed from the match I saw. I guess they recognized that the old rule was goofy.

Here is the current rule from the ICEA website:

11. Call Your Shot - No Need
There is NO NEED to call your shot / designate a pocket, even for the 8 ball or the shootout.
Flukes are allowed.
Attention: The shooter may NO LONGER call “safety” in which case play passes to the opponent at the end of the shot and any object ball pocketed on the safety remains pocketed.​
Not even the 8 ball! Which is a little strange.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
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If you don't like the 8 ball rules in the place you are at walk across the street to another place. Rules will probably be different.

I played in two 8 ball leagues in the same pool hall in St Louis. Each league had different ball rules. You had to try to remember which night it was so you could keep track of the rules.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
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Thanks!

Confirms what I thought, this was oddball even for straight eight. If I play one of those guys I'll tell them my only gambling game is one pocket. I doubt they have a clue about one pocket rules so I can make them up as I go!:thumbup:

It's a mad mad mad mad mad world!

Hu
 

Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
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probably the same type of players that would make you call a rail if you wanted to shoot around a ball and go rail first
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
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without a doubt

probably the same type of players that would make you call a rail if you wanted to shoot around a ball and go rail first


That is without a doubt. Playing those guys I might call a foul because they didn't announce the tip of the cue was going to hit the cue ball!

Hu
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
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I was playing pool a few nights ago and somebody on the next table called me over to look at a shot. Two balls were frozen. No question of a clean hit on the ball to be pocketed but the other ball would certainly move. They were playing "straight eight" and said it would be an illegal shot if the other ball moved.

I played what they called straight eight years ago and that was silly enough, they called foul for not saying you were going to hit an inner pocket rail! Everything had to be called about a shot. This can't move another ball rule seems to have brought things to another level, I don't remember even the straight eight guys claiming that although it has been a few decades and just during a short swing north and east on a road trip that I encountered straight eight. I disliked the way they were playing enough to not venture that way again!

So is there a rule set where you can't move a ball you aren't pocketing?


Hu

Bar rules follow no consistency, it's whatever the guy you are playing thinks the rules are. Usually from a bunch of bangers at a table when there is a rule question every one of them has a slightly different answer and 90% of the time they are all wrong. It's like asking what the rules are to a bee catching contest in Mexico during a Tequila drinking festival.
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
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If the frozen ball was the opponent's ball, it would be illegal.

In straight 8 ball, you cannot play a carom off an opponent's ball.
 

Bob Jewett

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... In straight 8 ball, you cannot play a carom off an opponent's ball.
I think that depends on the specific opponent and the specific bar.

But I thought that it was the cue ball that made the opponent's ball move, not a carom of the player's ball off the opponent's ball. Now I wonder which it was.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
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Balls were frozen together

I think that depends on the specific opponent and the specific bar.

But I thought that it was the cue ball that made the opponent's ball move, not a carom of the player's ball off the opponent's ball. Now I wonder which it was.



The two balls were frozen together with the second ball in a position where there was maybe one-eighth or less of the table where the object ball could be pocketed without moving the other one. The cue ball wasn't in that area. At a glance the answer was that the other ball would move and I went back to my table. They didn't ask anything about the legality of the shot so I don't remember which balls were involved already. I do believe one was high and one was low, wouldn't swear to that.

The only ball hit by the cue ball was the object ball, pocketing it was going to move the ball frozen to it a little. Since the carom question came up, is it considered a carom if the two balls are frozen together like this? The second ball did influence the path of the first a little. With the second ball partially on the backside of the object ball there was a large area on the object ball that could be hit and pocket it. Some hits would move the second ball a little, some would move it a lot.

From what they were saying, the shot was illegal if the second ball moved, even if you called the shot that way. While the second ball could be hit after the object ball if you wanted to hit it, most shots wouldn't hit it with the cue ball and there was no reason to.

I think I am bogging down. The more I try to clear up things the muddier my writing is getting!

Hu
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
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......

I think I am bogging down. The more I try to clear up things the muddier my writing is getting!

Hu

I think the only take-away we should get from this is "don't play pool with stupid rules". Anything else in this case is too complex and not needed LOL We can't have a ruling on interpretation of a rule that is in a set of rules that by definition does not have a set of rules out there that is not even consistent from one 10 mile radius to another (AKA bar pool, which is what straight 8 is pretty much). If it's not in the WPA or BCA rules to me that is outside the "standard" rules that I think of when I play. If there was a national "Straight 8" league that has been accepted by players and they came out with their rules in a nice format then we could talk about this, as it stands it's just a bunch of us being bards and re-telling stories that we have heard or seen before.

Any set of rules that makes you call how many times you contact a rail or restrict what balls you can contact after a legal shot is just silliness. What if you shoot a shot with a ball touching the rail already, is that one rail hit, no rail hits (since it's already on the rail) or infinite rail hits since it moves along all the points on the rail? What if the ball rolls out due to table not being level and rolls back into the cushion, is that "two" contacts? What if the ball rattles in the pocket, is each bounce in the jaws a "rail hit"? Who counts exactly how many there were?
 
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ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
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eight and straight eight

People play a different set of rules if they say they are playing eight ball or straight eight. If the unlevel table caused a slow rolled ball to hit the rail twice you would have to call it or it be a foul. If it hits both inner rails that would have to be called too. Straight eight does have rules, not always the same. You are pretty safe if you call everything. I didn't remember you couldn't play caroms but it is forty years or more since I have played straight eight and I didn't like it then!

It was the action game for a few hundred miles or so on a road trip so it was play straight eight or don't play. Never found any real action anyway but picking up a few hundred dollars was a lot better than not meeting expenses. One goal on the road was to never go backwards at the end of every day.

About bar rules, I played by them for years! Some good guys too but it was indisputable that a high percentage of jerks around Baton Rouge were from Houston when money was tight in Houston and Baton Rouge was booming. Those guys from Houston were quick to cry, "that's not how we play in Houston!" It always gave me great pleasure to remind them they weren't in Houston. I remember one guy that thought about it a second and acknowledged I was right. No surprise, we became friends or at least friendly. None of the people I gambled with were friends. I made it a rule never to gamble with friends for more than a beer.

I don't get out much anymore. The hall this happened in doesn't open until four and I make it a practice to try to be out of town before the evening traffic jams. I don't know if straight eight has gotten popular in this area or not. All coin tables, even the single nine footer so ten ball doesn't work and nine isn't much better. I hate six ball, never had a consistent break. Too often I won the nine ball game and lost the six ball game everyone wanted to play to use up the balls. Funny thing, I played somebody that played the six ball game first and it seemed much better. Just a mental thing with me obviously!

The coin thing made it even less likely people would play ten ball, so I guess more difficult variations of eight ball are natural. The hall had one nine foot Diamond the last time before this that was on the clock. They got rid of it and put in a coin op nine foot Diamond. First time I encountered a table with two coin mechanisms, one for coins, one for tokens.

Were I the owner, everything would work on tokens. Something I learned when looking into the car wash business, a lot of tokens are never used! Tokens cost eight cents each back then and were worth anything you decided they were worth, up to a dollar or even one-fifty in some areas. Some operators were averaging a thousand a month on the sale of tokens that were never used. Selling little pieces of aluminum for a dollar each is good business!

That coin op Diamond was the softest Diamond I have ever played on so I suspect they do just fine. I'll have to check the seven footers in there some time, they have a dozen of them.

Hu






I think the only take-away we should get from this is "don't play pool with stupid rules". Anything else in this case is too complex and not needed LOL We can't have a ruling on interpretation of a rule that is in a set of rules that by definition does not have a set of rules out there that is not even consistent from one 10 mile radius to another (AKA bar pool, which is what straight 8 is pretty much). If it's not in the WPA or BCA rules to me that is outside the "standard" rules that I think of when I play. If there was a national "Straight 8" league that has been accepted by players and they came out with their rules in a nice format then we could talk about this, as it stands it's just a bunch of us being bards and re-telling stories that we have heard or seen before.

Any set of rules that makes you call how many times you contact a rail or restrict what balls you can contact after a legal shot is just silliness. What if you shoot a shot with a ball touching the rail already, is that one rail hit, no rail hits (since it's already on the rail) or infinite rail hits since it moves along all the points on the rail? What if the ball rolls out due to table not being level and rolls back into the cushion, is that "two" contacts? What if the ball rattles in the pocket, is each bounce in the jaws a "rail hit"? Who counts exactly how many there were?
 
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