$18,500 missing from prize money!

jschelin99 · Oct 22, 2012

Wags: The tournament didn't fill and therefore the prize fund is less than in years past, but as long as every player paid their entry fee and the tournament pays out all the winnings, no money is "missing".

Your claim of missing money is like expecting a raise at work, dreaming of ways to spend that extra money, but then not getting the raise, and complaining about "losing" money.

Yes, I understand your bigger implications (pros vs. "dead money", ABP demanding seeding, amateurs not wanting seeding etc.). These issues seem to be coming to a head. What the exact impacts will be remains to be seen.

As far as how the prize money will be distributed now that there's $18,500 less in the pot, that remains to be seen, too. Unless the tournament was advertised with guaranteed dollar amounts for certain places, it just makes sense to lower all the pay outs just a little bit. If the top pay outs aren't affected, then you definitely have a valid complaint.

Jude Rosenstock · Oct 22, 2012

Wags said:
Well actually...someone is going to be missing the $18,500. Considering the Open has been maxed the last few years, to have 37 byes is pretty crazy. As I said in my OP, it will be interesting to see if it comes off the top or the bottom of the pay outs.

My question is why. And yes, indirectly the field did get robbed because of lack of entries.

I also don't believe that all the entrants understand the concept of "dead money" and the prize fund is based on it.

"Well actually", the US Open doesn't usually max-out. Last year it had 251 players. The year before it had 256. 2009 had 216 players. in 2008, there were 237 players. In 2007, there were 233 players. In 2006, there were 219 players. So, from what I'm seeing, the US Open maxed ONE year.

jrhendy · Oct 22, 2012

Think Positive

There are still 200+ of the best players in the world coming from all over the world to play in this tournament, despite politics and a terrible economy.

Still something to be proud of IMO. Just enjoy and quit trying to find something wrong.

dbldown · Oct 22, 2012

seeding

Would you enter a local tournament if the top 8 players in the room were seeded? Why anyone would ever play against pro players in a seeded event is beyond me. Yes, first the ABP started saying all the right things... guaranteed prize monies, more events, working to grow the sport. Then they hit us with their hidden agenda..seeded format so that their members get an unfair advantage over the younger pros, shortstops and old timers who can play good enough to matchup. Must really suck for them to lose to us. Barry. should have told them to boycott, they never would have.
The other tour directors told them to take a hike... and the ABP did nothing.

Pre-Flag Master · Oct 23, 2012

jrhendy said:
There are still 200+ of the best players in the world coming from all over the world to play in this tournament, despite politics and a terrible economy.

Still something to be proud of IMO. Just enjoy and quit trying to find something wrong.

Yeah! That's it. :yes:

lfigueroa · Oct 23, 2012

jrhendy said:
There are still 200+ of the best players in the world coming from all over the world to play in this tournament, despite politics and a terrible economy.

Still something to be proud of IMO. Just enjoy and quit trying to find something wrong.

I don't often disagree with you, John, but if things players think are wrong and/or unfair aren't brought to light and discussed they are likely to remain unchanged.

Lou Figueroa

mudball · Oct 23, 2012

The field is absolutely stacked and I wish I could be there. This will be the best $60 bucks I've ever spent for PPV. If you find reason to complain about this event right now I really feel sorry for you.

robsnotes4u · Oct 23, 2012

Players

My question is had it consistently been a full field? Was it full last year, or the year before? I am dead money in any tournament and I prefer seeding. If I am going to get beat by everyone, why shouldn't it be by a world beater.

Race2-9 · Oct 23, 2012

$18500 short (little long)

OK here we go again.....let us find as many negative things as we can about a tournament, seeding players, monies involved etc.
Just out of curiosity.....does anybody have something positive to add to event topics, do you have any ideas to make things better.....and my favorite question is do any of you play in these events or just B&*^% all the time.
There are, in my opinion, numerous things that can be added/improved to make tournaments more enjoyable for both the players and those spectators that do come out.
I know this is a repeat of various inputs from the past but that's the point, we continue to stir the pot and then wonder why Professional Pool is in the mess it's in vs. improving the situation.
Maybe someone could list a few of the things it takes to get a tournament "off the ground" and no I don't have all the solutions but without having a "flame war" let's start some positive input with facts vs supposition and maybe, in time, things will improve in the U.S. Men's Pool

Jude Rosenstock · Oct 23, 2012

robsnotes4u said:
My question is had it consistently been a full field? Was it full last year, or the year before? I am dead money in any tournament and I prefer seeding. If I am going to get beat by everyone, why shouldn't it be by a world beater.

I posted the turn-out for each US Open over the past several years. The field filled-up in 2010. The years before saw numbers very similar to this year.

jrhendy · Oct 23, 2012

lfigueroa said:
I don't often disagree with you, John, but if things players think are wrong and/or unfair aren't brought to light and discussed they are likely to remain unchanged.

Lou Figueroa

And I usually agree with you and after reflecting on my post, agree again. After watching players/promoters shooting themselves in the foot for over 50 years I guess I have come to expect it.

The most positive thing I have seen lately is C.J. being named captain of the Mosconi Cup. Only time will tell, but I believe it is a step in the right direction.

NickV · Oct 23, 2012

The average for the last 7 years is 233 entrants with a standard deviation of 16.

So this turnout is not what is considered outside the norm.

No one is getting their money stolen literally or metaphorically here when they voluntarily decide to enter this field of world class pool players.

Eric. · Oct 23, 2012

Jude Rosenstock said:
I posted the turn-out for each US Open over the past several years. The field filled-up in 2010. The years before saw numbers very similar to this year.

Jude,

Where did you get your numbers from? I don't doubt it at all and they sound correct, based on my suspect memory, but I was curious about your source?

Thanks,

Eric

Jude Rosenstock · Oct 23, 2012

Eric. said:
Jude,

Where did you get your numbers from? I don't doubt it at all and they sound correct, based on my suspect memory, but I was curious about your source?

Thanks,

Eric

I went through azb's archived articles. For each year, the first article posts the number of participants.

EDIT: For 2009, I couldn't find an article with a number so I counted by hand. If it's off by a couple, that's my bad.

Jude Rosenstock · Oct 23, 2012

I want to add, I appreciate Eric questioning my sources. Through the positive rep I've received, I have a sense of where many people here stand. I'm not saying I'm perfect (far from it) and I'm not here trying to give the original poster a hard time, either. All I want to say is, money is a sensitive topic. When you start talking about missing money, it has the potential to ruin reputations, events and lives. I know there are many out there that think we're a bunch of old ladies who have nothing better to do than gossip (and for the most part, they're right) but some actually view azb as a reliable source of information. When "missing money" is the topic, we owe it to the community to do our best to be accurate.

With that said, I think turn-out at the US Open is an interesting thing to discuss. If there were a thread that wanted to discuss ways to improve turn-out, I might participate in it.

Wags · Oct 23, 2012

Race,

Just to let you know. I feel the US Open is one of the best pool tournaments in the world. It is precisely for that reason that I am critical. I will still enjoy watching friends play and sweating a ton of matches.

Thanks to Jude, we know that 2011 was 5 entries shy of being full and 2010 was a full 256 field. For the byes to increase by 720% from last year, it seems like other factors are at play. Hence my questions on the OP.

Your post kind of sounds like Jack Nicholson in Mars Attacks: "Why can't we work out our differences? Why can't we work things out? Little people, why can't we all just get along?"

Then he got zapped by the Martians.

Problems need to be identified so the event can get better.

Thank you for your input.

Race2-9 said:
OK here we go again.....let us find as many negative things as we can about a tournament, seeding players, monies involved etc.
Just out of curiosity.....does anybody have something positive to add to event topics, do you have any ideas to make things better.....and my favorite question is do any of you play in these events or just B&*^% all the time.
There are, in my opinion, numerous things that can be added/improved to make tournaments more enjoyable for both the players and those spectators that do come out.
I know this is a repeat of various inputs from the past but that's the point, we continue to stir the pot and then wonder why Professional Pool is in the mess it's in vs. improving the situation.
Maybe someone could list a few of the things it takes to get a tournament "off the ground" and no I don't have all the solutions but without having a "flame war" let's start some positive input with facts vs supposition and maybe, in time, things will improve in the U.S. Men's Pool

Jude Rosenstock · Oct 23, 2012

Race2-9 said:
.....and my favorite question is do any of you play in these events or just B&*^% all the time.

I've played at the Turning Stone Classic twice, this January will be my third time. I played in the 14.1 World Championship and the World Summit of Pool. I've never played in the US Open (always run out of vacation days by October). I plan on getting married next Fall so 2013 seems very unlikely. I'm hoping to play in 2014.

ctyhntr · Oct 23, 2012

Jude, congratulations!

$18,500 missing from prize money!

jschelin99

AzB Silver Member

Jude Rosenstock

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jrhendy

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dbldown

Banned

Pre-Flag Master

Cue Ball Man

lfigueroa

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mudball

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robsnotes4u

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Race2-9

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Jude Rosenstock

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jrhendy

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NickV

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Eric.

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Jude Rosenstock

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Jude Rosenstock

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Wags

2 pocket-one pocket table

Jude Rosenstock

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ctyhntr

RIP Kelly