Synchronizing Eye Movement with Final Delivery

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm sure this question has been asked here before, but I haven't seen is discussed in a while. Anyone can chime in with what they've found in their experience on this topic that works for them, but I'd particularly love to hear any advice from the knowledgeable pool instructors that visit and post on this forum.

Specifically, does your eye movement of your eyes going back and forth between the object ball and cue ball during the final stages of your pre-shot routine and pre-strokes need to be synchronized so that it is the exact same every time, and that your eyes finally switch to focusing on the object ball at the same exact moment in your stroke for every shot?

For a long time, I've had a set pre-shot routine that I'm comfortable with and with a set number of final pre-strokes that lets me know subconsciously when I'm ready for my final delivery stroke. However, I've been very inconsistent with my shotmaking of late, and I just feel like my back and forth eye movements from the cue ball to object ball are just not consistent and done subconsciously like the rest of my pre-stroke routine is, which results in a lack of confidence in feeling like I know with certainly that I've made the shot even before I shoot it. Often when I'm feeling this is when I'm missing shots - even easier shots I know I should not miss. In the past I've had that feeling of confidence even before I shoot a shot, but not of late.

I know it's likely different for everyone, but I'm particularly interested in the timing of when my eyes should last go from the cue ball to the object ball. Should that be just before that final delivery backstroke starts, or slightly before or slightly after that? Even if it's an individual thing and differs for everyone as to when that moment is, does that need to occur at the same moment for every shot for that particular player? Thanks for any feedback anyone can provide.
 
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Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... I know it's likely different for everyone, but I'm particularly interested in the timing of when my eyes should last go from the cue ball to the object ball. Should that be just before that final delivery backstroke starts, or slightly before or slightly after that? Even if it's an individual thing and differs for everyone as to when that moment is, does that need to occur at the same moment for every shot for that particular player? Thanks for any feedback anyone can provide.
In general at pool it is easier to play consistently if the routine and motions (pre-shot routine or shot routine) are the same every shot or as much the same as possible.

As for exactly when to shift your eyes to the object ball, I think that if you have a pause at the end of your backstroke, it would be good to try what Alison Fisher does: move your eyes to the object ball during the pause.

Here's a related article about the "quiet eye": http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180627-is-quiet-eye-the-secret-to-success-for-athletes
 

gregcantrall

Center Ball
Silver Member
I shift my eyes to the object ball just after it is struck by the cue ball.
 
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BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Scott Lee teaches to have a consistent eye pattern. I think the basic principle is to limit shifting back and forth and do the same thing every time, in sync with the rest of your pre-shot routine.

For me, it’s: Look at object ball while getting down, then look at cue ball on practice stroke, then look at object ball before shooting. I think that’s the modal recommendation.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In general at pool it is easier to play consistently if the routine and motions (pre-shot routine or shot routine) are the same every shot or as much the same as possible.

As for exactly when to shift your eyes to the object ball, I think that if you have a pause at the end of your backstroke, it would be good to try what Alison Fisher does: move your eyes to the object ball during the pause.

Here's a related article about the "quiet eye": http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180627-is-quiet-eye-the-secret-to-success-for-athletes
Bob, thanks for the advice - that makes perfect sense. I don't have that long of a pause at the end of my backstroke, but perhaps I can try to make it a little longer and use that exact moment to shift my eyes to the object ball. I'll follow up in a few weeks and let you know if it's helped!
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Scott Lee teaches to have a consistent eye pattern. I think the basic principle is to limit shifting back and forth and do the same thing every time, in sync with the rest of your pre-shot routine.

For me, it’s: Look at object ball while getting down, then look at cue ball on practice stroke, then look at object ball before shooting. I think that’s the modal recommendation.
Makes sense, but "before shooting" is too general. Does that mean just after your final pre-stroke during the slight pause before you start your final stroke back, or sometime during or at the completion of your backstroke?
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Makes sense, but "before shooting" is too general. Does that mean just after your final pre-stroke during the slight pause before you start your final stroke back, or sometime during or at the completion of your backstroke?
As I recall one article, you need to be focused on the target (object ball) for at least half a second (others have said several hundred milliseconds) before the action, and it helps to stay focused for a while after the action.

In general I think a major reason to have your eye on the object ball at ball-ball contact is that you see whether you landed the cue ball where you intended. It's easier to correct errors if you know how much the error was and to which side.
 

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Makes sense, but "before shooting" is too general. Does that mean just after your final pre-stroke during the slight pause before you start your final stroke back, or sometime during or at the completion of your backstroke?

I’m not coordinated enough to switch gaze in the middle of a stroke.

1. Get down on shot while looking at OB.
2. Look at CB.
3. Stroke back and forth while looking at CB.
4. Look at OB.
5. Shoot while looking at OB.

Not that i do that every time, but that’s the goal that I got from a lesson with Scott Lee.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
I'm sure this question has been asked here before, but I haven't seen is discussed in a while. Anyone can chime in with what they've found in their experience on this topic that works for them, but I'd particularly love to hear any advice from the knowledgeable pool instructors that visit and post on this forum.

Specifically, does your eye movement of your eyes going back and forth between the object ball and cue ball during the final stages of your pre-shot routine and pre-strokes need to be synchronized so that it is the exact same every time, and that your eyes finally switch to focusing on the object ball at the same exact moment in your stroke for every shot?
FYI, some good resources dealing with this topic can be found here:

"eye pattern" resource page

Enjoy,
Dave
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’m not coordinated enough to switch gaze in the middle of a stroke.

1. Get down on shot while looking at OB.
2. Look at CB.
3. Stroke back and forth while looking at CB.
4. Look at OB.
5. Shoot while looking at OB.

Not that i do that every time, but that’s the goal that I got from a lesson with Scott Lee.
Thanks. I'm going to experiment with 2 different options for switching my eyes for the final time from the cue ball to the object ball:

Looking at the object ball during my initial pre-strokes (which for me is 3 strokes), then focusing on the cue ball during my final pre-strokes (which for me is 2 short strokes), then after my final pre-stroke and at the moment of pause when the cue tip is addressing within 1/4" of the back of the cue ball before starting my backstroke is when I will shift my eyes from the cue ball to the object ball to then remain throughout the entire stroke and follow through.

If that doesn't feel right, then I will experiment with shifting my eyes for the final time from the cue ball to the object ball at the end of my final delivery backstroke, only if I feel comfortable with a long enough pause at that point to be able to do it successfully. I'm sure I'll likely find that one of these two options will work better for me than the other. I believe the key is consistency for whichever option you choose, or any other option, to then do it the same every time.
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
I'm sure this question has been asked here before, but I haven't seen is discussed in a while. Anyone can chime in with what they've found in their experience on this topic that works for them, but I'd particularly love to hear any advice from the knowledgeable pool instructors that visit and post on this forum.

Specifically, does your eye movement of your eyes going back and forth between the object ball and cue ball during the final stages of your pre-shot routine and pre-strokes need to be synchronized so that it is the exact same every time, and that your eyes finally switch to focusing on the object ball at the same exact moment in your stroke for every shot?

For a long time, I've had a set pre-shot routine that I'm comfortable with and with a set number of final pre-strokes that lets me know subconsciously when I'm ready for my final delivery stroke. However, I've been very inconsistent with my shotmaking of late, and I just feel like my back and forth eye movements from the cue ball to object ball are just not consistent and done subconsciously like the rest of my pre-stroke routine is, which results in a lack of confidence in feeling like I know with certainly that I've made the shot even before I shoot it. Often when I'm feeling this is when I'm missing shots - even easier shots I know I should not miss. In the past I've had that feeling of confidence even before I shoot a shot, but not of late.

I know it's likely different for everyone, but I'm particularly interested in the timing of when my eyes should last go from the cue ball to the object ball. Should that be just before that final delivery backstroke starts, or slightly before or slightly after that? Even if it's an individual thing and differs for everyone as to when that moment is, does that need to occur at the same moment for every shot for that particular player? Thanks for any feedback anyone can provide.

Randy Goettlicher and his branch of instructors. Eye Patterns.

Freddie <~~~ student
 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
sam snead said you have to dance with who you brung. and that holds true.

when you get under pressure you will revert to what your normal stroke is that has been predetermined for you. your eyes go where they will and your body moves how it feels comfortable to.

if you try and develop something your body rejects then you will never improve past a set point.

that is why so many top pros all have different looking strokes and where their eyes go.
as the ones that get that far have let their natural systems determine their actions.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I focus on different things each practice stroke (or two)...

- on the CB to check tip accuracy
- with shaft, CB, OB all in sight to check alignment
- on the OB to check aim

I most often pull the trigger after checking alignment and shifting to OB.

pj
chgo
 
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bioactive

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’m not coordinated enough to switch gaze in the middle of a stroke.

1. Get down on shot while looking at OB.
2. Look at CB.
3. Stroke back and forth while looking at CB.
4. Look at OB.
5. Shoot while looking at OB.

Not that i do that every time, but that’s the goal that I got from a lesson with Scott Lee.

I learned this exact sequence from Lance Cowles. When I properly combine it with a slow backstroke and accelerating forward stroke while gazing at the exact line I want the cue ball to follow it is very effective. While the proper gaze is only one of a number of things that have to go right it is one of the most important things.

Your lower brain is doing most of the shooting and the eyes are giving it the most information during the course of the stroke. Having a defined sequence of eye movements and a prolonged gaze (0.5 second plus) gives your primitive brain very valuable information.

When a dog is chasing a frisbee, he is not "thinking" about it in the sense we humans do. He is looking at the positiion, rate of movement, and the derivative of that rate (acceleration), using his eyes, and he uses that information to run to the spot where the frisbee is going to be. This is proof that you do not have to be particularly smart to predict the future if given enough information in a relevant time frame. His primitive brain is capable of solving a difficult calculus problem and it is his eyes that deliver the needed information. Same goes for a pool shot IMO.
 

Get_A_Grip

Truth Will Set You Free
Silver Member
I actually pause a while motionless (Dennis Orcullo style) when down on the shot, where I actually visualize and stimulate what the shot will look like with the cue ball traveling to the object ball and making the shot (especially for longer or difficult shots). This really seems to help.

I believe that I shift my eyes to the object ball just before the tip makes contact with the CB.
 

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
I'm sure this question has been asked here before, but I haven't seen is discussed in a while. Anyone can chime in with what they've found in their experience on this topic that works for them, but I'd particularly love to hear any advice from the knowledgeable pool instructors that visit and post on this forum.

Specifically, does your eye movement of your eyes going back and forth between the object ball and cue ball during the final stages of your pre-shot routine and pre-strokes need to be synchronized so that it is the exact same every time, and that your eyes finally switch to focusing on the object ball at the same exact moment in your stroke for every shot?

For a long time, I've had a set pre-shot routine that I'm comfortable with and with a set number of final pre-strokes that lets me know subconsciously when I'm ready for my final delivery stroke. However, I've been very inconsistent with my shotmaking of late, and I just feel like my back and forth eye movements from the cue ball to object ball are just not consistent and done subconsciously like the rest of my pre-stroke routine is, which results in a lack of confidence in feeling like I know with certainly that I've made the shot even before I shoot it. Often when I'm feeling this is when I'm missing shots - even easier shots I know I should not miss. In the past I've had that feeling of confidence even before I shoot a shot, but not of late.

I know it's likely different for everyone, but I'm particularly interested in the timing of when my eyes should last go from the cue ball to the object ball. Should that be just before that final delivery backstroke starts, or slightly before or slightly after that? Even if it's an individual thing and differs for everyone as to when that moment is, does that need to occur at the same moment for every shot for that particular player? Thanks for any feedback anyone can provide.

Chris - First off ( as I'm sure most players do ), I have a mental checklist I've already gone through for each shot before I ever address the ball. So I know what english I'm using ( if any ), what shape I'm playing and everything that entails ( speed, type of stroke, etc ). When I address the ball, I focus on the CB first, then the OB. That's it. I never go back and forth at all. Once I am confident I am using the correct english, I never "recheck". I simply "trust my shot", as they say in golf. Address, CB, OB, fire...

So that's *my* story... :yeah:
 

Craig Fales

Registered bubinga user
Silver Member
I’m not coordinated enough to switch gaze in the middle of a stroke.

1. Get down on shot while looking at OB.
2. Look at CB.
3. Stroke back and forth while looking at CB.
4. Look at OB.
5. Shoot while looking at OB.

Not that i do that every time, but that’s the goal that I got from a lesson with Scott Lee.

That's pretty much the standard routine with many people. I add #6 in that's when I look back and forth from the CB and the OB. I feel this is when you subconsciously adjust your aim.
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
sam snead said you have to dance with who you brung. and that holds true.

when you get under pressure you will revert to what your normal stroke is that has been predetermined for you. your eyes go where they will and your body moves how it feels comfortable to.

if you try and develop something your body rejects then you will never improve past a set point.

that is why so many top pros all have different looking strokes and where their eyes go.
as the ones that get that far have let their natural systems determine their actions.
Yes many do have different strokes in pool that's a product of lack of instruction, if you look at the high level Asian Euro and Snooker players they are much more alike than American players are ,
You certainly can change if you put the time in , I found the hardest part to change is a pause in the stroke the rest is pretty simple if you put the time in ,
Not only did I change my eye pattern I also changed my breathing pattern so I'm so I'm breathing out looking at the object ball then holding on my backstroke and forward stroke That actually came from a sports shrink I visited who was a pool shooter along with with 20 yrs working as a sniper shrink in the military,
Between him and Scott Lee I revamped my whole game in my early 50s shot the best pool I'd shot in 25 yrs reaching a goal I had ,carried a team to Vegas APA masters and several good finishes in local stuff ,
It did take a tremendous amount of time at the table but that was in my 50s , so I certainly know it's certainly possible for a much younger player

1
 

7forlife

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's good to have a foundation, something consistent which one can use or blame should something go wrong. Now I don't know what ones aspirations are or what level people play at but what I was told during my journey down the pool rabbit hole was that I needed to "just start playing pool" I was trying to be to "robotic" is what my mentor said, first learn to "feel" and learn what I can do. When driving a car we do not think how much gas is needed or how much to turn the wheel when in a turn or what ever we just know based on experience and "feel".
Free Stroking I think that's what they call it when it just comes naturally and relaxed, the less I have to worry about when making that shot is, well, just better.
I train (when I can) to not be all over the place with what I do but I keep trying to relax when I'm playing like those times when I'm practicing or playing "that person" when it just happens and it just works out.
Best of luck to you, I would of really like to be robotic, I think it's cool but I found lately that a stress feel session is better.
 
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