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Why Joe McCarthy went after the US Army? - 09-24-2019, 01:25 PM

There is a new documentary film about Roy Cohn, called Where's My Roy Cohn?

Here's a claim from it that I had never heard before, and simply must share it. It is jaw dropping (of course, assuming it is true).

To set the stage (this isn't it, yet), Roger Stone (a protege of Cohn's, as DJT was, also), has claimed that Roy wasn't gay, but he just liked to have sex with young attractive men. I'm not exactly understanding Roger's attempted finer point, and the standard view of Cohn is that he was a closeted gay (who eventually died from AIDS, in fact).

Anyway, here's the story. Cohn got sweet on a dashing young private in the Army. (I don't know if this was as a secret admirer, from afar, or with some consummated relationship.) So he contacted the Secretary of the Army, demanded this man be promoted from private to general, and be given a billet in the penthouse of the Waldorf Astoria Hotel (iirc).

The answer he received was 'never!' And so, he then swore his revenge, and manipulated Sen. McCarthy into his hearings, which turned into McCarthy's Waterloo.

Quite a story! I am very interested to see if it holds up under review (or was already known before now). I always knew Roy Cohn was a true piece of work, but this is astonishing information.


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09-24-2019, 01:54 PM

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Originally Posted by Sofla View Post
There is a new documentary film about Roy Cohn, called Where's My Roy Cohn?

Here's a claim from it that I had never heard before, and simply must share it. It is jaw dropping (of course, assuming it is true).

To set the stage (this isn't it, yet), Roger Stone (a protege of Cohn's, as DJT was, also), has claimed that Roy wasn't gay, but he just liked to have sex with young attractive men. I'm not exactly understanding Roger's attempted finer point, and the standard view of Cohn is that he was a closeted gay (who eventually died from AIDS, in fact).

Anyway, here's the story. Cohn got sweet on a dashing young private in the Army. (I don't know if this was as a secret admirer, from afar, or with some consummated relationship.) So he contacted the Secretary of the Army, demanded this man be promoted from private to general, and be given a billet in the penthouse of the Waldorf Astoria Hotel (iirc).

The answer he received was 'never!' And so, he then swore his revenge, and manipulated Sen. McCarthy into his hearings, which turned into McCarthy's Waterloo.

Quite a story! I am very interested to see if it holds up under review (or was already known before now). I always knew Roy Cohn was a true piece of work, but this is astonishing information.


What is the relevance?
  
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09-24-2019, 02:10 PM

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Originally Posted by Mr. Wilson View Post
What is the relevance?
I'll see your raise, and re-raise it:

What is the relevance of your asking what the relevance is?

Posters post up what they find interesting. If you do not find this interesting, this post may not be for you. Perhaps others may be interested, and perhaps not.

The Army/McCarthy hearings were a big deal at the time, and as I said, essentially turned out to end his career. If Sen. McCarthy was punked into them as per this reported claim-- because of Cohn's man-crush, spectacularly ridiculous demand, and then sheer vindictiveness when it was refused-- that is an interesting footnote to this important history. In my opinion. YMMV.

That's before considering that Cohn was Trump's most important lifelong influence (other than his father), who took him to finishing school, so to speak, and gave him the toolbox of tricks he uses to this very day. The title of the film is a direct quote from PDJT, who lamented for his old consigliere by crying out: "Where is my Roy Cohn?," when asserting that his Attorney General was supposed to protect him, and Jeff Session's recusal had removed his ability to do so.

Quote:
MSNBC’s Richard Lui sits down with Martin London, a retired lawyer who helped disbar Roy Cohn, and Matt Tyrnauer, director of the new documentary, “Where’s My Roy Cohn?” Tyrnauer and London discuss how Cohn’s mentorship heavily influenced Donald Trump in his younger years, and how, in the words of Tyrnauer, Cohn “created” Donald Trump. Before his political career, Trump befriended and trusted the controversial lawyer with all sorts of legal matters, all the while learning Cohn’s tactics and style. The documentary’s title “Where’s My Roy Cohn,” was a quote from Trump, and when asked if Trump found “his” Roy Cohn in Attorney General Bill Barr, Tyrnauer stated that Trump is essentially “his own” Roy Cohn. [video here]


The point of modern propaganda isn't only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.

― Garry Kasparov

... the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either -- but right through every human heart -- and through all human hearts.

― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn

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09-24-2019, 07:25 PM

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What is the relevance?
Ole Joe is one of this forums' greatest heroes. Some may be interested.


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McCarthy's letter to Eisenhower
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McCarthy's letter to Eisenhower - 09-24-2019, 07:32 PM


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McCarthy's letter to Eisenhower
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McCarthy's letter to Eisenhower - 09-24-2019, 07:33 PM

Letter from Senator Joseph McCarthy to the President of the United States
This letter from Senator Joseph McCarthy, Republican representative of
Wisconsin, to President Harry Truman was written three days after McCarthy’s
famous Wheeling Speech. This speech signaled McCarthy’s rise to influence, as he
gained national attention by producing a piece of paper on which he claimed he had
listed the names of 205 members of the Communist Party working secretly in the
U.S. State Department. McCarthy was, at the time of this letter, beginning to exploit
national concerns about Communist infiltration during the Cold War. This fear of
infiltration was intensified by the Soviet Union’s recent development of the atomic
bomb and the coming Communist takeover of China. “McCarthyism” however was
not yet at its peak. Senator McCarthy here at first encourages President Truman to
commit more resources to the war of containment being fought in South Korea, and
secondly questioned the legitimacy and effectiveness of Truman’s loyalty program,
signed into effect by Executive Order 9835 in 1947. This program required the FBI
to run checks on almost anyone involved in the U.S. government and subsequently
to launch investigations into any government employee with what could be presumed
as questionable political associations. The Loyalty Program was not enough to satisfy
Senator McCarthy, who suspected that a number of subversives had slipped through
the investigation and remained in the State Department. President Truman made it
clear that he would not take McCarthy’s accusations seriously and that the Senator
was “the best asset the Kremlin has.”109
July 12, 1950

The President
The White House
Washington, D. C.
Dear Mr. President:

continued



https://history.hanover.edu/hhr/09/McCarthy.pdf
  
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09-24-2019, 07:34 PM

Joe McCarthy was no fan of George Marshall.

Gave the longest speech about Marshall. Some 50,000 words in the Senate.
  
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09-24-2019, 07:43 PM

What Sofla is not including is the shock of having China turn communist. General Marshall was sent to China to form a coalition government between the Nationalists and the Communists.

It was a total pipe dream and Marshall was told from old China hands that it would never work. Marshall got really pissed off.

There is a ton of super tendentious history being turned out. Oliver Stone and his whole alternative history series is a communist apology tour.

The Communist " Colossalcaust " is real and was mentioned at the UN by the president today to his credit.
  
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09-24-2019, 09:07 PM

I guess I never understood the actual Army-McCarthy hearings subject matter, because they were exactly about Roy Cohn and the Army's charges that McCarthy came at them because of Cohn's relationship with G. David Schine.

From Tom Wolfe's review of two biographies of Cohn:

Quote:
It was Dwight Eisenhower's Army, and by now, 1953, Eisenhower was President of the United States. And who got McCarthy into his last, ruinous tarball battle with the Army? The little prince. [meaning Roy Cohn, because he had been a child prodigy, as explained earlier in this review]

Cohn had brought aboard the McCarthy team, as an unpaid special investigator, one G. David Schine, the rich young handsome blond son of a hotel-chain operator. Mr. Schine's only qualification for the job was that he had written an amateurish tract entitled ''Definition of Communism'' and published it with his own money. Not even McCarthy knew why he was there. He only kept him on to make Cohn happy. McCarthy seemed to think that Cohn, in addition to being bright and energetic, was highly organized, tightly wound, cool and disciplined as well.

He wasn't. What baby autocrat would live like that? Cohn and Mr. Schine proceeded to become a pair of bold-faced characters in the gossip columns, two boys out on the town, throwing a party that stretched from the Stork Club in New York to various dives, high and low, in Paris - where they arrived during a disastrous European tour, supposedly to monitor the work of United States Government libraries abroad. The European press mocked them unmercifully, depicting them as a pair of nitwit children.

What did Cohn see in Mr. Schine? Almost immediately there were rumors that they were lovers and even that McCarthy himself was in on the game. Cohn's obsession with Mr. Schine, in light of what became known about Cohn in the 1980's, is one thing. But so far as Mr. Schine is concerned, there has never been the slightest evidence that he was anything but a good-looking kid who was having a helluva good time in a helluva good cause. In any event, the rumors were sizzling away when the Army-McCarthy hearings, the denouement of Joe McCarthy's career, got under way in 1954.

McCarthy's investigation of the Army's security procedures had taken place the year before. Now Eisenhower loyalists on McCarthy's subcom-mittee joined with Democrats to conduct hearings on the subject of - Roy Cohn.

David Schine was draft age. He had been classified 4-F because of a slipped disk, but now the highly publicized hard-partying lad was re-examined and reclassified 1-A. Cohn went to work. He tried to get the Army to give Mr. Schine an instant commission and a desk on the East Coast from which he could continue to serve the subcommittee and the Dionysian gods of the Stork Club and other boites.

Cohn made calls to everyone from Secretary of the Army Robert Stevens on down. He made small talk, he made big talk, he tried to make deals, he tendered i.o.u.'s, he screamed, and he screamed some more, he spoke of grim consequences. When all of this blew up in the form of a detailed log leaked to the press, Cohn was genuinely shocked. What had he done that any high official of the Favor Bank, any self-respecting makher, wouldn't have done for a friend? All he had done was try to advance a few markers, make a few contracts, and scare the pants off a few bureaucrats who were so lame as not to have an account at the Favor Bank in the first place.

But he was no longer dealing with the courthouse crowd in the Bronx or even lower Manhattan. He didn't know it, but he was dealing with Ike, and Ike had had enough. The thrust of the Army-McCarthy hearings was that McCarthy's attack on the Army had been nothing but an insidious attempt to get favored treatment for Cohn's friend Mr. Schine.

So what? Cohn remained confident that he could win against any odds. But, as he would later admit to Mr. Zion [author of the authorized biography], he was no match for the Army's counsel, the veteran Boston trial lawyer Joseph Welch. The hearings became a television drama that stopped America cold. The entire nation seemed to take time out to watch.
Wolfe's review recounts many fascinating details from the two biographies, and is well worth reading its entirety.

From the Wiki article (footnote):

Drogin, Bob (August 3, 1986). "Roy Cohn, Hero and Villain of McCarthy Era, Dies at 59". Los Angeles Times. Retrieved November 13, 2015. "Millions of Americans watched the real-life TV drama as McCarthy and Cohn tangled with top Army officials, trading bitter charges and accusations. Army counsel John G. Adams testified that Cohn had threatened to 'wreck the Army.' Army special counsel Joseph N. Welch also accused Cohn of doctoring a photo that was introduced as evidence."(Subscription required.)

Quote:
At least a portion of the Army's allegations were correct. Roy Cohn did take steps to request preferential treatment for Schine, going so far on at least one occasion to sign McCarthy's name without his knowledge on a request for Schine to have access to the Senators' Baths, a pool and steam room reserved exclusively for senators.[20]

The exact relationship between Cohn, McCarthy and Schine remains unknown. Cohn and Schine were certainly close, and rather than work out of the Senate offices, the two rented nearby office space and shared bills. McCarthy commented that Cohn was unreasonable in matters dealing with Schine. It is unclear if Schine ever had a romantic or sexual relationship with Cohn, who was a closeted homosexual. (Three years after the hearings, Schine married and eventually had six children.) Some have also suggested that McCarthy may have been homosexual, and was even possibly involved with Schine or Cohn.[21][22][23]
Cohn was out as committee counsel before the committee report was issued, after not quite two years of service. McCarthy was censured by the Senate, by a vote of 67-22.

That linked article includes more details on the whole hearing, and is recommended.


The point of modern propaganda isn't only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.

― Garry Kasparov

... the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either -- but right through every human heart -- and through all human hearts.

― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn

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09-24-2019, 09:22 PM

If it were not for his witch hunt, no one would even know his name.
  
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09-25-2019, 03:33 AM

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Originally Posted by tom haney View Post
Ole Joe is one of this forums' greatest heroes. Some may be interested.
Senator McCarthy was the only victim of McCarthyism.


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09-25-2019, 03:39 AM

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Senator McCarthy was the only victim of McCarthyism.
Amen!

  
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09-25-2019, 03:40 AM

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If it were not for his witch hunt, no one would even know his name.



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09-25-2019, 03:42 AM

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Originally Posted by LWW View Post
Senator McCarthy was the only victim of McCarthyism.
Thus speaketh one of his worshipers.


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09-25-2019, 03:46 AM

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Originally Posted by Slide Rule View Post
Amen!

The left took a beat down on this forum about a decade back that was of Biblical proportions ... and, to this day, nobody has produced a single innocent victim of McCarthyism other than the senator.


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