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10-05-2019, 08:10 AM

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Originally Posted by jasonlaus View Post
Mezz West? Corey quit the kiddie pool a long time ago.

I dont give a shit! I'll take Corey over any of these guys any day.
Your confidence in Deuel, though admirable, does not stand up to scrutiny.

I think Bergman would be favored by quite a bit to win a long race over Corey on a nine foot table. Justin easily handled Kevin Cheng in a long, high stakes, race at Derby City this year, and Kevin's a much tougher assignment than Corey right now. How good a player is Kevin Cheng? Not the easiest comparison, as Cheng rarely competes in the US. Still, Cheng won a WPA title this year over a killer field in April at the WPA Players Championship, an event in which Deuel finished 17th. Kevin also finished 6th in the nine ball event at Derby City, an event in which Corey came 65th. At the World 10-ball Championship, Cheng came 9th and Deuel came 33rd.

In a race to 100 between Deuel and Bergman, you might be entitled to 8:5 odds if Deuel is your man. Also, don't overlook that over the last few years, Bergman has played well in the Mosconi Cup, while Deuel has struggled mightily.

For a fairly even match on a nine footer, Bergman and Deuel have to play one pocket.
  
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10-05-2019, 11:26 AM

sjm Dont forget Corey beat Justin in their 8ball challenge match a couple of months ago
  
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10-05-2019, 11:31 AM

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Originally Posted by skogstokig View Post
was josh or chris ever considered? i know max beat bergman
Robinson was one of 4 (with Eberle, Bergman, and Parris) who played challenge matches in Las Vegas in July to determine which one of those 4 would join Thorpe, Deuel, and Styer as candidates for the 3 open team slots at that point (Van Boening and Woodward had already been chosen).

But I do not know what criteria Ruijsink/Jones used in choosing those 4 for consideration in July.

http://www.matchroompool.com/news/eb...r-mosconi-cup/
  
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10-05-2019, 12:01 PM

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Originally Posted by sjm View Post
Bergman has played well in the Mosconi Cup, while Deuel has struggled mightily.
Bergman might be a better Mosconi Cup choice, but letís not overstate it. Bergman played in the 2014-2016 Mosconi Cups, and has a singles record of 1 W and 7 L. Of course, most all of them have a similar record from that era.
  
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10-05-2019, 02:35 PM

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Originally Posted by sjm View Post
I must guess that you are young. Corey was one of the best few in the world early in his career. His credentials will land him in the BCA Hall of Fame one day.
I just got back into pool about 10 years ago. I only started watching the pros play in the last 5 or so. All the pro pool I've watched, a couch potato could watch in a few evenings.

Next year I will officially be old.

I love watching the Mosconi Cup. Last year was the first year I saw most of it. I don't have cable or satellite TV, I watch mostly watch real people doing hobbies on you tube.


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10-05-2019, 02:37 PM

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Originally Posted by BRussell View Post
Bergman might be a better Mosconi Cup choice, but letís not overstate it. Bergman played in the 2014-2016 Mosconi Cups, and has a singles record of 1 W and 7 L. Of course, most all of them have a similar record from that era.
Yes, point well taken that everyone got creamed in singles, but Justin passed the eye test and was, perhaps, the only team member that tended to play up to his speed.

In my recap of the 2016 Mosconi, posted just upon its completion, in which I rated the play of every player, here's what I wrote about Bergman.

Justin Bergman
Bergman was solid most of the way, and was, by a mile, Team USAís best player. To be fair, Justin does not break as well as some of the gameís top players and it threatens to hold him back from contention in the biggest events in pool. Still, Justin is the real deal, and heís the only member of Team USA to whom one can possibly say ďwell played.Ē Justinís all around game should inspire other members and aspiring members of Team USA. Justinís formula has been simple ---- he has become proficient in all the games, a dangerous opponent in all of poolís major disciplines. He has a really nice blend of power and finesse. Two young players with a trajectory similar to that of Justin because of their all around skills are Skyler Woodward and, even more so, Billy Thorpe
  
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10-05-2019, 02:45 PM

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Originally Posted by BRussell View Post
Bergman might be a better Mosconi Cup choice, but letís not overstate it. Bergman played in the 2014-2016 Mosconi Cups, and has a singles record of 1 W and 7 L. Of course, most all of them have a similar record from that era.
From my thread on career records of all Mosconi Cup players:

ē Justin Bergman (3 yrs. -- 2014-2016) ..... 1-5 s, 4-3 d, 1-2 t, 6-10 total A (38%), 3.2-6.9 total B (32%)
  
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10-05-2019, 03:09 PM

When it comes to who is a better choice Corey Deuel or Max Eberle in the team this year...
Well I didn't watch any matches they played in the Kremlin Cup yet but I'm going to watch a hill-hill match Ruslan vs Max. At least I have an interest.
What I did watch closely are those both great matches vs young talent Fedor Gorst during Dream challenge. Both were great battles which ended up in the deciders. And if to be short the truth is very cruel in this sport...when you have your chance on a finish line you either take it or you fail and lose. I guess I know this sport good enough to say this crucial difference comes from what is in your head and your heart. Long story short Corey failed being on the finish line and Max closed the deal...

Do you know there was also something like training camp Johan held during this time USA team was in Moscow with all the USA team participants and the Russian team with those who participated in Dream challenge. There was one exception for my countryman Vitaliy Patsura who participated too. One of the reasons there were 6 americans and 5 russians = 11 and Johan needed an even number of participants because he divided them in pairs with 1 american and 1 russian in each pair. Vitaliy practised in pair with Max Eberle. Being young talented player one of the Billiard brothers and a good friend also helped. So as Vitaliy is also a friend of mine and practices in the same place I work...well we had some talk when he came back from Moscow and I have some insight info when it comes to their practise sessions and how certain players performed in certain aspects of the game. With my respect to all the players and to Johan I don't think it is right to discuss certain things. So I can say only about my opinion based on what I've already noticed watching certain players performance under pressure.
There are certain things helping me in understanding what difficulties the player may have. If you have enough experience in the game and remember your best times as a player...how it felt in matches on certain shots when you had a better stroke and how it feels now when you're just not as relaxed and confident when you face them under pressure. BTW I was born in 1977 too.
It will be interesting to watch how both Corey and Max perform at the International Open.
At least it does not seem this year like Marcus Chamat has much easier task with choosing 2 wild-cards than Johan has with his fifth spot (imo).


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10-05-2019, 07:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by S.Vaskovskyi View Post
When it comes to who is a better choice Corey Deuel or Max Eberle in the team this year...
Well I didn't watch any matches they played in the Kremlin Cup yet but I'm going to watch a hill-hill match Ruslan vs Max. At least I have an interest.
What I did watch closely are those both great matches vs young talent Fedor Gorst during Dream challenge. Both were great battles which ended up in the deciders. And if to be short the truth is very cruel in this sport...when you have your chance on a finish line you either take it or you fail and lose. I guess I know this sport good enough to say this crucial difference comes from what is in your head and your heart. Long story short Corey failed being on the finish line and Max closed the deal...

Do you know there was also something like training camp Johan held during this time USA team was in Moscow with all the USA team participants and the Russian team with those who participated in Dream challenge. There was one exception for my countryman Vitaliy Patsura who participated too. One of the reasons there were 6 americans and 5 russians = 11 and Johan needed an even number of participants because he divided them in pairs with 1 american and 1 russian in each pair. Vitaliy practised in pair with Max Eberle. Being young talented player one of the Billiard brothers and a good friend also helped. So as Vitaliy is also a friend of mine and practices in the same place I work...well we had some talk when he came back from Moscow and I have some insight info when it comes to their practise sessions and how certain players performed in certain aspects of the game. With my respect to all the players and to Johan I don't think it is right to discuss certain things. So I can say only about my opinion based on what I've already noticed watching certain players performance under pressure.
There are certain things helping me in understanding what difficulties the player may have. If you have enough experience in the game and remember your best times as a player...how it felt in matches on certain shots when you had a better stroke and how it feels now when you're just not as relaxed and confident when you face them under pressure. BTW I was born in 1977 too.
It will be interesting to watch how both Corey and Max perform at the International Open.
At least it does not seem this year like Marcus Chamat has much easier task with choosing 2 wild-cards than Johan has with his fifth spot (imo).
Well said. America's best case scenario is that Deuel finds his very best game at the International, finishing high and beating at least one of the elite Europeans along the way. I doubt anyone questions that Corey's "A" game is higher than Eberle's "A" game, but what ultimately matters in assembling the best possible Team USA is who is in better form right now. For the moment, the answer is Eberle, but we all know this can change.
  
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10-06-2019, 06:24 AM

I don't know that we have a better analyst of pool players on here than SJM. And he can back up everything he says with clear recollections of matches each respective player has been in. We are fortunate to have people like him and AtLarge with his stats and Mike Page with Fargo Rate to keep us informed about the relative skills of our top players. They are a Godsend in a sport with no clear organizing body to keep records of all our major competitions.

As for little old me I have my own thoughts about the two players in question here. IMO Corey for whatever reason does not seem to perform at his best in the MC. In other tournament's I have seen him play brilliantly but not at the MC. Max on the other hand has been a career grinder, never reaching the illustrious heights that Corey has. Also for some unknown reason (maybe Johann and JJ?) Max appears to be playing the best pool of his life right now. Eccentricities aside I'd like to see him get his chance on the world stage. I think he's ready, and what a great story that would be if a 47 year old 'rookie' helped Team USA hold onto the title.


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10-06-2019, 06:05 PM

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sjm Dont forget Corey beat Justin in their 8ball challenge match a couple of months ago
Hey, you're right. Good point.
  
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10-06-2019, 06:11 PM

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Originally Posted by jay helfert View Post
I don't know that we have a better analyst of pool players on here than SJM. And he can back up everything he says with clear recollections of matches each respective player has been in. We are fortunate to have people like him and AtLarge with his stats and Mike Page with Fargo Rate to keep us informed about the relative skills of our top players. They are a Godsend in a sport with no clear organizing body to keep records of all our major competitions.

As for little old me I have my own thoughts about the two players in question here. IMO Corey for whatever reason does not seem to perform at his best in the MC. In other tournament's I have seen him play brilliantly but not at the MC. Max on the other hand has been a career grinder, never reaching the illustrious heights that Corey has. Also for some unknown reason (maybe Johann and JJ?) Max appears to be playing the best pool of his life right now. Eccentricities aside I'd like to see him get his chance on the world stage. I think he's ready, and what a great story that would be if a 47 year old 'rookie' helped Team USA hold onto the title.
Wow, thanks for the kind words. Yeah, the Max story is very unexpected. Even if he make the team, I thin that, on paper, he'll be the weakest member of Team USA, and I'd say the same of Corey.

Not crystal clear how Max's flat earth views figure herr, as long as he believes in flat pool tables and round pool balls.

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10-07-2019, 06:18 AM

Max is a cerebral player, not possessing of a free-wheeling stroke.
I'm worried that Max would falter under the bright lights at the Mosconi Cup, particularly in a singles match, but not so much in doubles.
But, he's worked extremely hard for this opportunity and I'd be pleased if he makes the Team.
Their finishes at the upcoming International could seal the deal for him or Corey.
  
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10-07-2019, 09:15 AM

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Originally Posted by sjm View Post
Wow, thanks for the kind words. Yeah, the Max story is very unexpected. Even if he make the team, I thin that, on paper, he'll be the weakest member of Team USA, and I'd say the same of Corey.

Not crystal clear how Max's flat earth views figure her, as long as he believes in flat pool tables and round pool balls.
If the flat earth tilts a little the balls will roll funny. Max should be a lot of fun if nothing else
  
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10-07-2019, 12:20 PM

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Originally Posted by Celophanewrap View Post
If the flat earth tilts a little the balls will roll funny.
LOL, let's hope it doesn't come to that.
  
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