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FranCrimi
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01-24-2019, 12:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_dave View Post
Somebody asked me via PM to offer my thoughts on the pause/stop debate.

All of my thoughts are already presented in detail here:

what is a "pause" and why should I "pause?"

Enjoy,
Dave
I think a cut and paste would've sufficed. Nonetheless, I do like the distinction between 'stop' and 'pause.'
  
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dr_dave
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01-24-2019, 12:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_dave View Post
I think quotes like this are fine. What I don't like is when somebody quotes something out of context in a way that skews the intended message.
....or quoting someone without giving credit to the originator of the quote, leaving the reader to wrongly assume who actually said those words.
Agreed.

Regards,
Dave
  
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Patrick Johnson
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01-24-2019, 03:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
I think a cut and paste would've sufficed.
I hope Dave keeps posting links to his site, whether or not he includes quotes. I think he performs a valuable forum service by posting links to relevant info in as many threads as possible. Threads and the forum are better for it.

I'm afraid if he took the time to cut and paste things he wouldn't be able to provide nearly as many useful references as he does - and threads and the forum would be poorer because of it.

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dr_dave
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01-24-2019, 03:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
I hope Dave keeps posting links to his site, whether or not he includes quotes. I think he performs a valuable forum service by posting links to relevant info in as many threads as possible. Threads and the forum are better for it.

I'm afraid if he took the time to cut and paste things he wouldn't be able to provide nearly as many useful references as he does - and threads and the forum would be poorer because of it.
Also, the resource pages I link to usually include much more context in the form of links, videos, and articles that provide supporting information.

Regards,
Dave
  
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Dan White
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01-24-2019, 04:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
Me too....

But then you get to anatomy and physiology. Do the muscles have to stop before changing direction with a traditional pool stroke? I think probably so.

But here's where I think it gets interesting: We have more than one muscle group at work, so when the arm muscle group stops to change direction, the hand muscle group can potentially keep the cue in motion because certain hand muscles aren't necessarily reversing direction, but rather starting for the first time during that stroke.
Fran, regarding your juggling analogy earlier, maybe a closer analogy would be the motion of a piston in an engine. The cylinder end moves back and forth like the cue tip, while the other end is attached to a crankshaft and moves in a circular motion, as the elbow would in a stroke where the elbow doesn't experience a start/stop type motion.

Regarding the above bold part. You've hit on something that I can identify with completely. I play with mostly a pendulum stroke and have been considering to add a pause at my backstroke. Nobody else mentioned this, but I find that the pause allows my hand and forearm muscles to relax completely before I begin the forward stroke. I like to play with a "dead" hand meaning I am not introducing any tension into the stroke from the hand. I have found that the pause triggers me to think about relaxing those muscles completely just before the forward stroke begins. It all happens very quickly, I guess in the time it takes to pause.

Just wanted to throw that out there. Oh, and I don't subscribe to the idea that you cannot change to a pause stroke if you "naturally" don't do that. I have trouble believing that any player naturally paused the first time they picked up a cue. I think the trick is that if you understand that the pause actually yields real benefits that you can see, then you will start doing it all the time.


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  (#81)
Patrick Johnson
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01-24-2019, 07:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan White View Post
Fran, regarding your juggling analogy earlier, maybe a closer analogy would be the motion of a piston in an engine. The cylinder end moves back and forth like the cue tip, while the other end is attached to a crankshaft and moves in a circular motion, as the elbow would in a stroke where the elbow doesn't experience a start/stop type motion.
I like the piston analogy - it's a vivid comparison of the two types of motion. The piston's physically connected to the crankshaft, so its straight-line motion precisely mirrors the rotating crankshaft's motion along that same axis. The crankshaft never stops moving, so the piston must not either.

Quote:
I have found that the pause triggers me to think about relaxing those muscles completely just before the forward stroke begins.
It's a natural trigger at exactly the right time and place for one - it triggers greater all around focus for me. I'm sure it's programmable to some degree.

pj
chgo
  
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gregcantrall
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01-25-2019, 03:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan White View Post
I think the trick is that if you understand that the pause actually yields real benefits that you can see, then you will start doing it all the time.
This has been my experience.

I can't explain why but I am more accurate and get better results with a pause. It could be just enough to eliminate tension. It could be improved focus.
  
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Dan White
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01-25-2019, 07:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregcantrall View Post
This has been my experience.

I can't explain why but I am more accurate and get better results with a pause. It could be just enough to eliminate tension. It could be improved focus.
I was trying to make a point based on what Fran said, but I realize I never really made the point. I wonder if a pause is REQUIRED in order to achieve that little extra bit of relaxation in the hand. Fran talked about potential interactions between upper arm muscles that control the pause, and forearm and hand muscles. Maybe if those upper muscles are always in motion in one direction or another the lower and hand muscles can't really relax.

It is impossible to sneeze with your eyes open... kind of like that.


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BC21
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01-25-2019, 07:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
I like the piston analogy - it's a vivid comparison of the two types of motion. The piston's physically connected to the crankshaft, so its straight-line motion precisely mirrors the rotating crankshaft's motion along that same axis. The crankshaft never stops moving, so the piston must not either.


It's a natural trigger at exactly the right time and place for one - it triggers greater all around focus for me. I'm sure it's programmable to some degree.

pj
chgo
The piston analogy works great for the free-flowing practice/preliminary strokes, but that final stroke is something different. It doesn't end the same because the cue is accelerating through the cb, and so it seems natural that it should also not begin the same. The pause is like a, "Ok, I'm set, here it goes" moment in time. It may only last a fraction of second. Maybe no one sees it, but feeling it seems to work for me.


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Last edited by BC21; 01-25-2019 at 03:14 PM.
  
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Pause - 01-25-2019, 01:02 PM

The best pause I've seen in years is Jeffrey Ignacio. It's the transition point when the eyes come up and lock on your object ball. Within that split second, your mind takes a muscle memory pic of the shot.


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Patrick Johnson
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01-25-2019, 05:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
...that final stroke is something different.
I've been experimenting with deliberately pausing on practice strokes, especially the one or two just before the shot stroke, to more closely rehearse the shot stroke. Still working out the details, but I like it so far.

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Ratta
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02-13-2019, 10:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
The piston analogy works great for the free-flowing practice/preliminary strokes, but that final stroke is something different. It doesn't end the same because the cue is accelerating through the cb, and so it seems natural that it should also not begin the same. The pause is like a, "Ok, I'm set, here it goes" moment in time. It may only last a fraction of second. Maybe no one sees it, but feeling it seems to work for me.

Have the greatest respect for many of your postings matey- but you ve shown up with something, which would give Food for a completley different *Topic*--
The "OK" which you described can be at the cueball itself (Point of no Return, Analogy of PSR taught by most of german Coaches), then it also depends what Kind of a PEP you are using (Person eye pattern, cb last, ob last, and and and. )-- if you for example have a super Extended Pause at the end of the backswing-- some Players gettin here their "ok"- (if that is a good advice, ...not worth to discuss now here).
Just wanted to say, that is not so a good example you came up with Buddy. :-)

have a smooth stroke


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03-04-2019, 05:39 AM

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Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
Belt and suspenders and duck tape.

She has a long pause at the back at which time her eyes move from the cue ball and focus on the object ball. And, then, pow!
So does Neils. I love watching them play but can't actually do it myself.
  
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FranCrimi
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03-04-2019, 08:46 AM

So what makes a person a 'natural' in sports? It's that hand-eye coordination thing they've got going called 'timing.' A natural athlete moves with great timing.

So those of you who feel like you want to work on your 'pause' in your stroke, I think it would be better if you think of it more in terms of developing your timing.
  
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03-15-2019, 10:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
So what makes a person a 'natural' in sports? It's that hand-eye coordination thing they've got going called 'timing.' A natural athlete moves with great timing.

So those of you who feel like you want to work on your 'pause' in your stroke, I think it would be better if you think of it more in terms of developing your timing.
Very well chosen words- l like these sentences a lot.
Timing is important- and furthermore hard to develope..


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