I'm interested
Scientist explains why laminated tips perform as they do
- Thread starter arnaldo
- Start date
I'm interested
I've installed layered and non layered tips on snooker cues. Most snooker players like soft tips, and tend to ask for Elkmasters or Blue Diamonds. I have, however, installed a bunch of Snipers on snooker cues.
Snooker players use whatever tips they're comfortable with, the same as pool players, and 3 cushion billiards players. One thing I have noted, is the tip hardness amongst the games. Snooker players prefer a soft tip, in general. Pool tends to favour a medium hardness tip. 3 cushion, preference tends to be hard.
I have a snooker-sized tip on my pool cue (<10mm), and I've always used layered tips on it. These days I use Ultraskin hard layered tips. Great combo.
Interesting about the different reactions of smaller balls. They also would squirt more with the fatter pool tips.
I've never noticed greater miscues with harder tips, but it's been a long while since I used anything else...
pj
chgo
PJ,
I've used a medium talisman for a few years for English pool and snooker... but gone back to Blue Diamond and Elkmaster single layered tips. I've used a couple of cues, 9mm and 10mm, mainly used the 10mm in snooker, with 2&1/16" balls and 9mm for 1&7/8th" English Pool CB, though maybe it's 1&15/16ths... has been changes of late.
Especially in English pool, I made a lot more miscues than I had previously, when using the talisman tips, but maybe that was part of converting from US pool back to English pool.... but, preferring the single layered tips now...once they've compacted a bit... perhaps a softer layered tip like Kamui would work well.
When you say fat tips influencing squirt, do you mean width or depth. From what I have researches, leather has a lower density than the combination of wood + brass ferule, so a greater depth tip should have a lower tip end mass...though, hard to get good figures and perhaps these glued compressed layered tips may increase tip end mass.
Just guessing and sharing some observations and experiences.
Colin
P.S. When I say prefer, I generally mean my confidence in hitting extremes in english, particularly draw, without miscueing.
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Here you go, Mr. President. This is from an old post of mine about testing the difference between shafts, but it works for tips too.
pj
chgo
See it with my own eyes..........
I'm capable of playing at a higher level and can see clearly what is happening.
The latest player I switched to the Ki teck, Mike McCune has seen a big rise in his game as well.
That makes it 7 in a row. non of these players can hardly believe the difference.
It's huge.
No more accidental overspingate..........
I'm capable of playing at a higher level and can see clearly what is happening.
The latest player I switched to the Ki teck, Mike McCune has seen a big rise in his game as well.
That makes it 7 in a row. non of these players can hardly believe the difference.
It's huge.
No more accidental overspingate..........
I mean width (more wood = greater end mass; smaller balls = less opposing mass). I should have said "shaft" rather than "tip".
pj
chgo
If you have time and interest, the simple test I posted above can prove or disprove it objectively without special equipment.
pj
chgo
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The best tip I ever played with was the Future Tip. I'd love to know what happened to them. They weren't leather. 100% synthetic tip. The hit was a little different than leather, but the consistency from start to end was unbelievable. And they applied more juice than anything I've played.
I find it funny that an advanced player would have "overspin" issues. Whenever I've played with a cue that had the ability to produce a lot of cueball action, I just started reducing the amount of english I'd use. And you play at a much higher level than me, Gene. Just a thought,
Before layered tips
Here's a thought, and Rempe made me realize this. If you were ever around him in his latter years of his playing career, he had a zipper soft case, that would open up totally and lay flat....to access shafts/butt etc. What did catch my eye was ''how many different shafts'' he had in his case, he might of had 8-10. What I came to realize is this. Different playing conditions required different cue tips. Getting too much or not enough on the cue ball and getting the feel of the cue balls release of spin is critical in high end play. To surmise, there is no perfect tip for all conditions, conditions change all the time.
Here's a thought, and Rempe made me realize this. If you were ever around him in his latter years of his playing career, he had a zipper soft case, that would open up totally and lay flat....to access shafts/butt etc. What did catch my eye was ''how many different shafts'' he had in his case, he might of had 8-10. What I came to realize is this. Different playing conditions required different cue tips. Getting too much or not enough on the cue ball and getting the feel of the cue balls release of spin is critical in high end play. To surmise, there is no perfect tip for all conditions, conditions change all the time.
Absolutely. Humidity adds a fun factor to tables and balls. Sometimes the balls are sliding and doing things they normally don't do. When I used to play league, we'd be stuck on different tables, in different locations, with different playing conditions. On a pristine Gold Crown with good cloth, I liked my standard 20oz cue with a medium hard tip. When we got stuck on a sluggish bar box with an oversized ball, I'd play with a 21oz cue, with a soft tip. Didn't have to change my stroke. The additional weight from the heavier cue, and the additional spin with the softer tip, helped me play more consistently from table to table.
I guess I am happy I don't need to worry about tips that much, its one advantage to not being that good. The only difference I notice between leather, Kamui hard and soft, and my Tiger is the feel or hardness of the tip and the feedback I get through the cue. When I had a shaft made a couple months ago I did not even bother to specify a tip, I just let them install whatever is the norm for them on that particular shaft and it plays fine for me.
I think most players judge a tip by the feedback it gives. I played with Future Tips, while they were available. They had two grades, a blue and a brown. The brown was made to more closely replicate the "feel" of a leather tip. The blue had a really weird feel, but the things that tip could do was amazing. It held chalk well, didn't glaze like a hide based tip, and its compression characteristics were fantastic. It felt like a mushroom, compared to a crisp Le Pro or Water Buffalo tip. But, I played really well with them. I wish they were still available...
It isn't a "cheap assed Elk Master". He uses a "milk dud" of his own recipe. I got the recipe years ago from someone that made a cue for Efren. Still use it to this day. Makes one hell of a milk dud
Agreed
Agreed..milkduds are great tips and pro's have said that about them for years, the only negative I've ever heard about them is that they are all not all the same. Some pro's said they would get a bad tip here and there from the box and it threw them off. But a good milkdud plays as well as a quality layered tip, so if price is a factor you can get a box of milkduds for less then 1 single layered tip.
Agreed..milkduds are great tips and pro's have said that about them for years, the only negative I've ever heard about them is that they are all not all the same. Some pro's said they would get a bad tip here and there from the box and it threw them off. But a good milkdud plays as well as a quality layered tip, so if price is a factor you can get a box of milkduds for less then 1 single layered tip.
Jim Odom, here in Ft. Worth put a "Milk Dud" on my cue three days ago
That's correct, Jim Odom, here in Ft. Worth put a "Milk Dud" on my cue three days ago and I already won two local tournaments and $800 in a "break and run contest" with it.
I have had some that he replaced, however, I have Milk Duds on all my cues now. I wore the last one down to the ferrule before replacing it.
Chris Renfro also has some great tips, although they are a variation of the standard "Milk Dud" (he uses some high-tech milk)
It isn't a "cheap assed Elk Master". He uses a "milk dud" of his own recipe. I got the recipe years ago from someone that made a cue for Efren. Still use it to this day. Makes one hell of a milk dud
That's correct, Jim Odom, here in Ft. Worth put a "Milk Dud" on my cue three days ago and I already won two local tournaments and $800 in a "break and run contest" with it.
I have had some that he replaced, however, I have Milk Duds on all my cues now. I wore the last one down to the ferrule before replacing it.
Chris Renfro also has some great tips, although they are a variation of the standard "Milk Dud" (he uses some high-tech milk
)
Many players have beat him using other tips. "X pro player does Y, so that must be the best way" is never a conclusive argument. Usually it's not even a good one.
pj
chgo
That's correct, Jim Odom, here in Ft. Worth put a "Milk Dud" on my cue three days ago and I already won two local tournaments and $800 in a "break and run contest" with it.
I have had some that he replaced, however, I have Milk Duds on all my cues now. I wore the last one down to the ferrule before replacing it.
Chris Renfro also has some great tips, although they are a variation of the standard "Milk Dud" (he uses some high-tech milk
Efren's secret ingredient is buttermilk.
Ron Swanson
Banned
I went through a phase of putting layered tips on my snooker/english pool, concluding with a talisman medium. Performace was ok, but the miscues were constant, so I've invented my own milk dud formula, which I'm rather hopeful is unique: elkmaster, milk, hair mousse and piss. Works great.