whats the secret on cut shots on the short rail?

BC21 said:

I'm simply going by what I remember from Dr. Dave's and Bob J's data on throw when using various combinations of stun, roll, spin, or speed. There is always collision-induced throw, which is caused by the cb rubbing against the ob (friction - the ob's resistance to the cb rubbing). Since spin can increase or decrease friction at the contact point, I believe it's because an additional force, another friction vector, requires the ob to respond according to the direction of the additional force, the resulting friction being the combination of these forces.

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You don't believe it. I'm good with that.:thumbup:

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Patrick Johnson said:

I’d say it’s an increase or decrease of the same force. Maybe you’re saying the same thing...


I don’t know if I believe it or not - can’t tell if we disagree substantively or just semantically. Fun, subtle topic for us nerds.

pj
chgo

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BC21 said:

I don't think it's substantial. I have a bad habit, sometimes useful though, of tearing something apart to see how it works. That makes me think there are two frictional components at work upon collision, one vertical and one horizontal, both combining to result in a total friction during contact. It would make for a good nerd topic thread, the micro details of rolling, sliding, and spinning collisions between spheres.

So has the op solved his missed shot problem?

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Seth C. said:

I’d be interested in learned opinions about whether, and to what degree, there is a difference between what I might call the “nature” of CIT and SIT. By “nature” I mean: do these two kinds of throw cause the same, or a functionally equivalent, effect on the OB? I have always had it in my head that an OB hit by a softly struck, sideways spinning CB will end up at a different ultimate destination than it would have but for the spin on the CB in part due to it “wandering” sideways as it travels to that destination (because it is “biting” into the cloth). Conversely, I’ve always had it in my head that an OB hit by a CB in a standard rolling CB, medium cut shot scenario would start off in a “thrown” direction (not 180 degrees) and continue to move in that direction (not “wander”). I’m now thinking that the latter is not true, and that an OB hit by a CB having no side spin will start spinning sideways and will “wander.” But are the paths of the OB in the two scenarios (CIT only vs. SIT only)(yes, I understand that he latter would require a direct hit with no cut) the same? If you were to draw lines/curves, would they look the same, in their basic nature (shape of the path/curve)?

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Seth C. said:

I’d be interested in learned opinions about whether, and to what degree, there is a difference between what I might call the “nature” of CIT and SIT. By “nature” I mean: do these two kinds of throw cause the same, or a functionally equivalent, effect on the OB? I have always had it in my head that an OB hit by a softly struck, sideways spinning CB will end up at a different ultimate destination than it would have but for the spin on the CB in part due to it “wandering” sideways as it travels to that destination (because it is “biting” into the cloth). Conversely, I’ve always had it in my head that an OB hit by a CB in a standard rolling CB, medium cut shot scenario would start off in a “thrown” direction (not 180 degrees) and continue to move in that direction (not “wander”). I’m now thinking that the latter is not true, and that an OB hit by a CB having no side spin will start spinning sideways and will “wander.” But are the paths of the OB in the two scenarios (CIT only vs. SIT only)(yes, I understand that he latter would require a direct hit with no cut) the same? If you were to draw lines/curves, would they look the same, in their basic nature (shape of the path/curve)?

Click to expand...

Seth C. said:

I’d be interested in learned opinions about whether, and to what degree, there is a difference between what I might call the “nature” of CIT and SIT. By “nature” I mean: do these two kinds of throw cause the same, or a functionally equivalent, effect on the OB? I have always had it in my head that an OB hit by a softly struck, sideways spinning CB will end up at a different ultimate destination than it would have but for the spin on the CB in part due to it “wandering” sideways as it travels to that destination (because it is “biting” into the cloth). Conversely, I’ve always had it in my head that an OB hit by a CB in a standard rolling CB, medium cut shot scenario would start off in a “thrown” direction (not 180 degrees) and continue to move in that direction (not “wander”). I’m now thinking that the latter is not true, and that an OB hit by a CB having no side spin will start spinning sideways and will “wander.” But are the paths of the OB in the two scenarios (CIT only vs. SIT only)(yes, I understand that he latter would require a direct hit with no cut) the same? If you were to draw lines/curves, would they look the same, in their basic nature (shape of the path/curve)?

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Patrick Johnson said:

Yes, the OB will usually pick up some side spin from collision with the CB, but side spin by itself doesn't make a rolling ball curve significantly.

pj
chgo

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