APA Ailments- VENT

Sorry to hear all that. I'm not up on APA & would only play it again if my children begged me (maybe not even then).

The only thing I can think of is to go over your LO's head to a regional or national person. That won't get you in good with her but she'll know that you are not one she should ignore.

How's your game? Last I heard you were doing fairly well.

Best Regards,

Supply and demand...

The league op doesn't have any competition, and there's 30 team demand!!!
Start your own league...or

If there's a better league in the area, join it. If not, you have 3 choices...
1. Quit league, play tourneys.
2. Put up with it and keep going.
3. Contact APA corporate headquarters and voice your concerns. They've got a lot to lose, and would probably force results. Could get messy though.

I've driven an hour before on a regular basis for a league that I enjoyed. I passed thru 3 other league areas on my way. I play pool to enjoy it. That's very important. Maybe it's worth driving. Your call.

Good luck!

Contact Mark Estes at marke@playcsipool.com.

He is head of the USAPL division.
I think you will like it - it is similar to APA but a much better rating system.

No annual membership dues!
The league is required to payout 50% on the local level.
The USAPL Nationals are held in conjundtion with the BCAPL nationals and you can play in both of them (certain events only).

This years Nationals are at the RIO in Las Vegas - July 17 to 27.

You get over 30 events PLUS 3-US Open championships PLUS a World Trick Shot Event and then the BEF National Junior 9-Ball Championships.

I think he would love to hear form you.
He can either get you to a USAPL league or show you how to get inovlved in owning your own territory.

Mark Griffin

Welcome to the world of pool leagues. The one & only way to enjoy any pool league is to not take it seriously. Plain & simple I have been my own worst enemy because I did take it seriously. When I look back on it if I had not it might have been fun. Leagues can be fun if you go with the idea that it should be a social night out and nothing more. If you find yourself in a situation like I did then you should get out. For me it became a job to win as much as I could so the team could win first place that was what was expected so I worked my butt off to make that happen. In the end what did we win, honestly a plastic trophy and we got our money back that we paid per week. Big Deal! Sadly the league operators are allowed to do just about whatever they want as long as the league survives they could care less about any individuals. IMO if you want to enjoy league pool have a drink shoot some pool and DO NOT take it seriously!!!

JuicyGirl said:

heck that's nothing compared to the folks in Pinellas next door, they must have 100 teams and I KNOW their LO is way better than ours, just by looking at their website.

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I think you answered your own question.

I feel your pain. But that was a few years ago for me. I think our situations were/are a little different but the aggrevation is still the same. It finally took me being open to and understanding what our LO actually did as an LO, but our LO genuinely wanted it to work well for everyone and didn't always have time for me. Your position sounds a little different.

Writing, emailing, calling the national office I have found is not really the way to go. Every comment that comes to them from your area goes right back to your LO and any national office involvment is minimal if any at all and you would likely be advised to address these concerns to your LO. In our area in the APA there are a number of divisions per area and a sort of manager oversees the teams in those divisions. If you all have a similar set up you might try contacting the manager person as a first step, it's a good bet that they at least have an avenue to the LO and a meeting or a few minutes with the LO every week or so. Perhaps your concerns would be better told by an employee of the LO if they have any.

I also realized that I was only one person and most of the APA players weren't as involved as much as me and if I wanted to enjoy my evenings at pool I'd have to either put up with it or go somewhere else. As much as I'd like to think I took a stand and took my business elsewhere, the truth is that LO probably couldn't have cared less if I stayed or left, I was only one customer and my money would be replaced. So quietly I went to a neighboring area with a different LO, and coincidentially the same issues. Maybe it was me?

This is where I drew a different understanding of what the LO actually does and that they weren't out to get me. Over time I have become friends with this LO and I know not to take anything personally. We still don't see eye to eye about many things, but who does. I am comfortable this LO understands my position and I understand theirs and we don't always agree, but I understand that if I want something done differently I am always free to purchase my own APA franchise.

Important thing to remember is that it's (probably) not personal and you can grin and bear it, it will most likely improve with time, you can play in a different area where you will probably encounter the same issues to some degree, or you can play in the league Mark Griffin mentioned and remember that's a league too. I'm sure it comes with it's own issues.

Try a different perspective. I know for along time here we had a pool room owner that held a lot of APA events without the support of the APA office. He realized that the big dog was the APA and there was a bunch of money to be made, so he did. It benefitted all of us and kept his pool hall full for a long time. His APA based tournaments paid out pretty good, there were always trophies, if you've ever been to Las Vegas for the NTC, his tournament schedule was like an endless series of giant recurring monthly mini-tournaments and they began to draw players from several areas and surrounding states and he made a fortune. If you could get someone like that behind you, you wouldn't even need your LO for much any more except the paperwork. You'd be surprised how fast they might come around.

And if none of that works you're more than welcome move the family and join us here in Colorado, we'd love to have you on our team.

Ditto Celophanewrap above.

I get your frustration. Totally. And it sucks to not get any response or feedback. That, to me, is the biggest failing of your LO, not being in touch with his/her customer base.

It's a shame, but it happens in every business. Look around where you live, there are businesses that don't show their customers the kind of response and respect that they should, and their business eventually suffers from it.

Our LO doesn't do everything necessarily the way I would like, but they do enough right that it doesn't spoil it for me. The flip side is that it is their business, and it is their right to run it as they please, whether properly or not. In our case, its done well enough, most of the time. Sadly, it doesn't sound like that is the case for you.

My advice for you is to make the best of it, for the time being, and to try not to take it personally, or to let it spoil "playing pool" for you. It certainly can't hurt to look around and see what else is available, and to certainly take a look at Mark's USAPL.

Realize that starting your own league opens up a whole 'nother set of issues, though if you are of the right mindset, it could very well be rewarding, too. It sounds really easy, talk to everyone locally that "absolutely hates the APA (or the way its run locally)" and start your own league. Getting those same folks to committing to actually switching is another thing entirely, as we found out here last year... You very well may have the support to pull it off, and could very well be better for it. At least it is an option to consider, for sure. We know you will get better support from the top with a CSI league than you will from APA.

I wish you well, and hope it works out for you, at least to a point where you can still enjoy yourself playing pool. It does suck to be so into it and not get any kind of response from your LO. Good luck!

JuicyGirl said:

I try not to take it seriously but my team mates want to go to Vegas, and they have worked so hard.

Thanks everyone,
Loren

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Loren, I speak from experience here when I tell you that the above quoted part of your post is a situation that does not work well.

I too have played on teams that most of the members main goal was to get the "trip to Vegas". All the while I, although a serious competitor, cares nothing at all about the trip. Don't really care about city/regional tourneys. Don't really care what position my team is in the session standings. I just want to get out of the house, do some socializing, have a drink or two, make some friends, and shoot some pool with someone other than my wife.

I found that the way I approached each match changes depending on the goals of other teammates. You play on a team where the majority of teammates seriously WANT that trip, you can find yourself pressing a little harder than you really want to, for THEIR sake, not yours. I've played on teams where nary a member cared about the "Vegas" thing. These were the teams where I found the most enjoyment from league play.

No great info/advice here, just some food for thought. I hope that everything works out to your satisfaction. Just remember to KEEP IT FUN!!!

Maniac

It's clear that your LO has a full time job and only does it on the side unlike the 2 LO in our area that have over 1000 teams and its a full time job with staff. The MVP only gets a patch unless the LO pays for it himself that's the case where I played I got a 100 for each time I won it

At the end off they day I come to realize not expect anything from them and realize that your only playing for your self enjoyment
That way none of the BS will bother you

1

Loren,

I pretty much agree with Maniac.

Everyone wants to win. Especially me. I am a fierce competitor. I hate losing but actually don't mind getting beat. There is a difference. I play to win for me yet I am ALL about team. I know that sounds contradictory but not really. I play scared to let my team mates down. I use that as extra motivation to make sure that I do not let them down. If I win for me, I also win for them & if I win for them I win for me.

The thing is, that most, not all, but most of the ones that want that Vegas trip the most are the ones that can least contibute to getting it.

There are very few pros in league play. Almost all are Amatuers. The word Amatuer comes from words that mean Love. Amatuers play for the love of the game. If a Vegas Trip happens it will be because everyone played for the right reason...for the Love of The Game.

Best Regards & Best Wishes,

I am guessing here, but locally, LTC Qualified means that team is qualified for the tournament that sends you to Vegas...and if that is the teams goal, you (as a team) need to see it through, at least through that tournament.

For us, that is called "states" as our LO has the entire state for his territory. For you, it sounds like "regionals", but if I understand it correctly, the LTC part should be the same.

The LTC for us is coming up next month, I expect it should be for you as well. Once you get through that, you will have more options. Or you will have won and are going to vegas, baybeeeeeeeeeee

We have folks that may be going to different teams, or not playing next session, and since both our teams are LTC qualified, all of that is on hold till "states" are done. One way or another.

LTC Qualified,
Local Team Championship?
In 8 ball or 9 ball?

If you are having issues getting in contact with your LO, contact the APA National Office. The number can be found on the back of the APA manual, among other places. They are very good about getting back to league members with questions or concerns, and contacting the LO to address why the calls and emails aren't being responded to in a timely manner.

As a fellow APA LO, I can say that this is an extremely busy time for league operators. We are closing out current sessions, setting up new ones and preparing for Tricups and LTC's. Pat is going through things right now that I cannot even imagine on top of such a busy time. My heart pours out to her at this difficult time, and I hope you not only get your questions and concerns addressed, but that you give her as many chances as necessary to correct this issue.

If you look for reasons to be happy instead of unhappy you will be happier.

APA LO said:

If you are having issues getting in contact with your LO, contact the APA National Office. The number can be found on the back of the APA manual, among other places. They are very good about getting back to league members with questions or concerns, and contacting the LO to address why the calls and emails aren't being responded to in a timely manner.

As a fellow APA LO, I can say that this is an extremely busy time for league operators. We are closing out current sessions, setting up new ones and preparing for Tricups and LTC's. Pat is going through things right now that I cannot even imagine on top of such a busy time. My heart pours out to her at this difficult time, and I hope you not only get your questions and concerns addressed, but that you give her as many chances as necessary to correct this issue.

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I agree with this, and I would urge you NOT to wait to contact the national office. You have questions and they will help you get answers. They know that Pat is probably a little overwhelmed right now and are in a position to support her. For some who work there, member support is part of their job description so you should never feel like you shouldn't contact them. Web form or phone call, they do respond quickly.

APA LO said:

If you are having issues getting in contact with your LO, contact the APA National Office. The number can be found on the back of the APA manual, among other places. They are very good about getting back to league members with questions or concerns, and contacting the LO to address why the calls and emails aren't being responded to in a timely manner.

As a fellow APA LO, I can say that this is an extremely busy time for league operators. We are closing out current sessions, setting up new ones and preparing for Tricups and LTC's. Pat is going through things right now that I cannot even imagine on top of such a busy time. My heart pours out to her at this difficult time, and I hope you not only get your questions and concerns addressed, but that you give her as many chances as necessary to correct this issue.

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That explains a lot....

Loren, let us know how it turns out. Hopefully, for the best.