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AtLarge
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12-03-2019, 04:18 PM

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Originally Posted by Cameron Smith View Post
... I used to really enjoy the dragon 14.1 events in the late 00's and early 10's, but they've fallen well short of where they were when the top players were actually competing in them. I think the last decent one was the year Appleton ran 200 and out.
Yes, it is a shame what has become of this event in a few short years. That Appleton 200 year was 2013. Here are the number of entrants from 2010 to this year: 48, 64, 48, 48, 48, 56, 48, 32, 30, 29 (or 30). And the number of players this year that really belong in something touted as a "world" event is fewer than ever.

BUT -- that doesn't mean there will be no good, interesting, well played matches this year, matches that should be of interest to 14.1 fans. Hohmann, Schmidt, Van Boening, Deuel, Archer, Eberle. Kennedy -- quite a bit of pool talent there. And I don't know how Storm plays these days. And a few other guys could be spoilers.

Last year they spent 7 days with 30 players. At least they reduced it to 6 days this year, with evenings off.
  
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12-03-2019, 04:21 PM

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Originally Posted by Positively Ralf View Post
... As a side note, I think someone should consider buying the rights to the US Open 14.1 name and try to start up something with that. ...
Mark Griffin owns those rights, and he has been holding that event for several years now without much success (in terms of entrants). The reigning champ is SVB.
  
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12-03-2019, 04:54 PM

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Originally Posted by AtLarge View Post
Mark Griffin owns those rights, and he has been holding that event for several years now without much success (in terms of entrants). The reigning champ is SVB.
Those attempts in that CT room and at Griff's in Vegas have been flops mostly. Too bad it couldn't be more successful.
  
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12-03-2019, 05:37 PM

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Originally Posted by AtLarge View Post
Yes, it is a shame what has become of this event in a few short years. That Appleton 200 year was 2013. Here are the number of entrants from 2010 to this year: 48, 64, 48, 48, 48, 56, 48, 32, 30, 29 (or 30). And the number of players this year that really belong in something touted as a "world" event is fewer than ever.

BUT -- that doesn't mean there will be no good, interesting, well played matches this year, matches that should be of interest to 14.1 fans. Hohmann, Schmidt, Van Boening, Deuel, Archer, Eberle. Kennedy -- quite a bit of pool talent there. And I don't know how Storm plays these days. And a few other guys could be spoilers.

Last year they spent 7 days with 30 players. At least they reduced it to 6 days this year, with evenings off.
For sure, there will be some great match ups. I would enjoy watching it, if not for the price. A number of years ago I would have argued that the dragon tournaments were tough enough to be world championships, but sadly no longer. The American 14.1 event has far and away dwarfed the dragon event in terms of talent pool.


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12-03-2019, 05:43 PM

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Originally Posted by Positively Ralf View Post
Not a bad idea but there's just too much that needs to happen for that kind of event to actually happen.

personally, I would love to see something like a prize fight setup between two players, the champion and the challenger, in a race to 500 or even 1,000 to determine who the 14.1 champion of the world is. And then that person can be challenged every 6 months or so. Maybe put up $1000 for the match and try to get some sponsors to put more money for the players and promoters.

As a side note, I think someone should consider buying the rights to the US Open 14.1 name and try to start up something with that. I have a weird feeling that this will be the last year of Charlie Williams' world event and then we will have the American 14.1 as the only major 14.1 championship in the US.
It's not totally out of the realm of possibility. You'd probably need someone like Accu-Stats willing to do it and WPA willing to break with convention and grant the title of World Championship. It looks like first prize was 5k for the MIH and perhaps with additional sponsor it could be driven up higher?

A challenge match would be fun too. It would be great to get them playing longer matches and increase the potential of big runs in a match format.


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Positively Ralf
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12-03-2019, 07:16 PM

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Originally Posted by AtLarge View Post
Mark Griffin owns those rights, and he has been holding that event for several years now without much success (in terms of entrants). The reigning champ is SVB.
I don't know Mark Griffin, but is he wanting to hold on to that name for dear life? It's not as if his events have been better than the dragon promotion ones. Besides the production values of the 2019 one, they have been major flops.

If anyone has contact info, I would gladly ask him if the name is for sale.
  
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Positively Ralf
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12-03-2019, 07:19 PM

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Originally Posted by AtLarge View Post

BUT -- that doesn't mean there will be no good, interesting, well played matches this year, matches that should be of interest to 14.1 fans. Hohmann, Schmidt, Van Boening, Deuel, Archer, Eberle. Kennedy -- quite a bit of pool talent there. And I don't know how Storm plays these days. And a few other guys could be spoilers.

Last year they spent 7 days with 30 players. At least they reduced it to 6 days this year, with evenings off.
You have a great point there. Was it not last year that MikeB, the Long island league player, upset both Archer and schdmit and placed third in the event? Also I'm sure it was the same year Earl herring beat svb in a match.

I think we all want to see how that 16 year old kid who entered will be doing in this event aswell.
  
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12-03-2019, 10:38 PM

They did get a sixth player for the Van Boening group -- Jennifer Berzinski. So, 30 players in 5 groups of 6.
  
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12-03-2019, 10:41 PM

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Originally Posted by Positively Ralf View Post
You have a great point there. Was it not last year that MikeB, the Long island league player, upset both Archer and schdmit and placed third in the event? Also I'm sure it was the same year Earl herring beat svb in a match.

I think we all want to see how that 16 year old kid who entered will be doing in this event aswell.
Right you are about Badstuebner (3rd place) and Herring (beat SVB) last year. In the Herring/SVB match, Shane ran 27 to get to 98, but then played a poor safety and Earl ran 31 and out for the win. That was a round-robin match. Earl finished first in their group but then lost 2 matches in a row in the double-elimination stage and didn't make it to the 12-player single-elimination stage.
  
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12-04-2019, 07:50 AM

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Originally Posted by AtLarge View Post
They did get a sixth player for the Van Boening group -- Jennifer Berzinski. So, 30 players in 5 groups of 6.
with 5 groups of 6, how does that break down to a tournament stage ?


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12-04-2019, 08:31 AM

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Originally Posted by stevekur1 View Post
with 5 groups of 6, how does that break down to a tournament stage ?
Well they are posting that Thursday is "final 16" so probably top 3 from each group plus a next highest ball man.

But this is the Dragon so I imagine we might see some real jerry-rigged bracket.

(looking now on their site they have the brackets in the second day result's pdf: https://www.theworldtournament.com/results)

Last edited by Joe_Jaguar; 12-04-2019 at 08:37 AM. Reason: results link
  
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12-04-2019, 09:06 AM

The final 16 chart shows one bye.
  
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12-04-2019, 09:53 AM

I am feeling that this may be the last year for this event- when I look on the tournament site: www.theworldtournament.com I see OLD information under the banners for "info" "players" and the round robin results are not up to date at all- just pathetic that they run something called a "world" tournament and they do not even have a person dedicated to keeping the site for the event up to date!
If you are running any event, and have a dedicated site- please show enough interest in your own business to keep it up to date! Someone mentioned SIX players and said "quite a bit of pool talent"- Really- SIX PLAYERS who are true pros and to me THAT is NOT quite a bit of talent for a WORLD tournament- maybe if you had at least 20 true 14.1 professionals I would use that statement to describe this event. I am just sad to see someone promote an event in such a shabby fashion- I hear one qualifier had ONE entrant! No qualifiers in major cities throughout the US either- just in ORLANDO AND JACKSONVILLE? I MOVED TO FL FROM CT 2 YEARS AGO - THERE ARE HARDLY ANY 14.1 PLAYERS HERE IN FL. SO WHY HAVE THE QUALIFIERS HERE- just bc they are close to the tournament site? So So sad that this person promotes pool in this manner- sorry to see it!
  
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12-04-2019, 10:21 AM

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Originally Posted by mikemosconi View Post
I am feeling that this may be the last year for this event- when I look on the tournament site: www.theworldtournament.com I see OLD information under the banners for "info" "players" and the round robin results are not up to date at all- just pathetic that they run something called a "world" tournament and they do not even have a person dedicated to keeping the site for the event up to date!
If you are running any event, and have a dedicated site- please show enough interest in your own business to keep it up to date! Someone mentioned SIX players and said "quite a bit of pool talent"- Really- SIX PLAYERS who are true pros and to me THAT is NOT quite a bit of talent for a WORLD tournament- maybe if you had at least 20 true 14.1 professionals I would use that statement to describe this event. I am just sad to see someone promote an event in such a shabby fashion- I hear one qualifier had ONE entrant! No qualifiers in major cities throughout the US either- just in ORLANDO AND JACKSONVILLE? I MOVED TO FL FROM CT 2 YEARS AGO - THERE ARE HARDLY ANY 14.1 PLAYERS HERE IN FL. SO WHY HAVE THE QUALIFIERS HERE- just bc they are close to the tournament site? So So sad that this person promotes pool in this manner- sorry to see it!
I think it's well known he holds this event just to spite the WPA. Or at least he thinks they care enough to be spited. It's a really sad state of affairs.

And yes, the fact that they had no qualifiers in any major 14.1 cities goes to show how much he does not care. From what I hear in NY, there was not even a call made to the previous host room(The Spot in Nanuet) to hold a qualifier. Can't say I've heard anything about attempting to reach out to places like Bayshore billiards or Amsterdam Billiards for qualifiers.

Again, I don't care much for what has happened between CW/Dragon Promotions, but it's time this event comes to either a close or get a new identity. Unless they are really best friends with CW, I don't even get why the pros who are there are there to begin with.
  
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12-04-2019, 10:35 AM

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... Someone mentioned SIX players and said "quite a bit of pool talent"- Really- SIX PLAYERS who are true pros and to me THAT is NOT quite a bit of talent for a WORLD tournament ...
You're misrepresenting what I said. I did note the poor turnout and how few entrants really belong in something touted as a "world" event. The next paragraph simply says that, despite the poor turnout, there will still be some good matches to watch. And I named 7 (not 6) players who present "quite a bit of pool talent there." I'd be pleased to watch 14.1 matches among those 7 guys (plus possibly a couple more in that field) no matter what event (and the event's format) they're in.

But I agree with most of what you said.
  
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