SVB cheating? Shaw/SVB Derby 9 Ball

BmoreMoney

BmoreMoney

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Swighey said:
Of course they should have refs at every table. Reality is of course different but this should certainly be aspired to.

Nobody is suggesting eliminating 9 ball.
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Here is my idear : an HD camera set up at EVERY table. With the price of HD cameras really having came down the last 4 or 5 years and quality gone way up ( thanks to China ) the initial cost to set up a system is now within reason imo where as even 5 years ago it definitely was not. This would benefit everyone several ways.

The replay of course could be used in leau of a ref at every table. May not work for a racking dispute but could still call a ref over until a solution is finally found to deal with all this racking bs. But here's the best part - it could be used for streaming the way everyone wants it done anyway where the those who purchase the stream can toggle between whatever matches they want. Accustats or whomever would be able to have a much larger library of matches to sell too.
 
BmoreMoney

BmoreMoney

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ChrisinNC said:
Yeah, I think a perfect example of the proof that the pros shouldn't be playing this game is the Gomez vs Orcollo 9-ball match at Derby City. Orcollo played absolutely awful, missing numerous easy shots in this match, but often just getting lucky when he missed a very makeable shot and either lucking in a ball or leaving Gomez hooked. In the hill-hill game, he gets very lucky again, leaving Gomez a kick, and then Orcollo runs out to win the match. There was no question which player played better in this match, but he didn't win the match due the current 9-ball rules. I second that the pros should be playing call shot 10-ball, eliminating most of the luck factor that exists in 9-ball.
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The fans like the " luck " factor as it definitely makes it more exciting. The fans are what this is supposed to be about anyway , same as any other pro sport they are there to entertain us nothing more. Not to mention there's already p,entry of 10 ball tournaments so mixing in 9 ball is a good way to keep it interesting. I'd like to see more one pocket myself. I think a mix of almost everything would be ideal for a tour - 10, 9, and 7 foot tables. 8, 9, 10 ball, and one pocket. Before someone says it, yes there are pro sports with variations in competition. Nascar has different style tracks, day / night racing, different length races. Tennis has different court surfaces. No two baseball stadiums have the exact same dimensions. Football has natural versus turf. Plenty of examples.
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
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JohnnyP said:
Why don't they "train the tables" before starting the tournament?

1) Fresh cloth

2) Draw an outline around the rack.

3) Load the rack, freeze the balls, then tap in place. If there is time the night before, use an eye dropper to put a drop of water where each ball will sit, then tap the balls and let dry.

4) When racking during play, place the rack in the outline and load the rack. Do not load it and then slide into the racking area.
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If the table is trained you do not need a triangle.

For best results the dents have to be slightly closer to each other than a ball diameter.

I don't know of any US tournament that uses trained tables.
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Bob Jewett said:
If the table is trained you do not need a triangle.

For best results the dents have to be slightly closer to each other than a ball diameter.

I don't know of any US tournament that uses trained tables.
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FYI to those interested, more info and demonstrations for how to train a table properly and how to get a good rack using others methods can be found here:

how to get a tight rack

Enjoy,
Dave
 
jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
First off, I DON'T like putting dents in the cloth! I would never allow a player to do any more than lightly tap the balls into place. If I ever saw anyone hitting a ball forcefully I put a stop to it immediately. If you're wondering why, I will tell you. Balls will most definitely roll off going over any indentation in the cloth. Especially a slow moving ball! This also goes for the templates they are using currently. I've seen countless times where a slow rolling ball rolls over the template and it's direction of travel is altered. Sorry, not for me. I'll take my Delta 13 triangle and lay down a nice solid rack and we can play the game from there. If you ever watch any of the matches where I racked the balls, the wing ball was not flying in.

When Earl ran all those racks, he never made the nine after I started racking. He had made it twice in the first five racks and left it in front of the pocket in another. So there were three short racks out of the first five. In the last five racks where I racked the balls the nine didn't move nearly as much. That combo he made in rack ten was extremely difficult. The nine ball was maybe a foot from the pocket and it was a full length table shot on the one to the nine.
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
jay helfert said:
Balls will most definitely roll off going over any indentation in the cloth. Especially a slow moving ball! This also goes for the templates they are using currently.
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Jay,

I agree with you 100% concerning racking templates having potentially big effects on balls moving slowly in the rack area. However, the effect with a trained table is negligible. My table is trained, and I never see ball paths being affected, even when I try to roll balls slowly over the ball marks. Now, if a ball is about to come to rest very close to a ball mark, it will likely settle in the mark, but this does not happen often. I don't think I've ever seen it happen on my table during play.

With a racking template, ball paths and resting spots can definitely be affected. And a racking template has the additional problem of needing to sometimes temporarily move balls to remove the template from the table after a break (which takes care and time). Not removing the template can cause certain types of shots to go off line and can cause some balls to be disturbed when they shouldn't be.

Regards,
Dave
 
JohnnyP

JohnnyP

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bob:

They've tried everything else, why not give trained tables a shot?

Oh, I forgot. Sponsorship money from rack makers.


One more thing they could do is to scuff the rail cloth with a buffing wheel to keep badly hit balls from going in the first couple of days.
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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JohnnyP said:
Bob:

They've tried everything else, why not give trained tables a shot?

Oh, I forgot. Sponsorship money from rack makers. ... .
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In the case of DCC they were using the new Diamond plastic racks so I don't think there was any sponsorship money involved. For other tournaments, I would agree.
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I leave the template on the table when I use it at home and it is one of the most exciting points in the game, when the ball rolls onto the film. Where is it gonna go?!

And if there is a ball resting close by? Shiiit, fugedaboudit! That is a damn thrill.

jay helfert said:
First off, I DON'T like putting dents in the cloth! I would never allow a player to do any more than lightly tap the balls into place. If I ever saw anyone hitting a ball forcefully I put a stop to it immediately. If you're wondering why, I will tell you. Balls will most definitely roll off going over any indentation in the cloth. Especially a slow moving ball! This also goes for the templates they are using currently. I've seen countless times where a slow rolling ball rolls over the template and it's direction of travel is altered. Sorry, not for me. I'll take my Delta 13 triangle and lay down a nice solid rack and we can play the game from there. If you ever watch any of the matches where I racked the balls, the wing ball was not flying in.

When Earl ran all those racks, he never made the nine after I started racking. He had made it twice in the first five racks and left it in front of the pocket in another. So there were three short racks out of the first five. In the last five racks where I racked the balls the nine didn't move nearly as much. That combo he made in rack ten was extremely difficult. The nine ball was maybe a foot from the pocket and it was a full length table shot on the one to the nine.
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greyghost

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Black-Balled said:
I leave the template on the table when I use it at home and it is one of the most exciting points in the game, when the ball rolls onto the film. Where is it gonna go?!



And if there is a ball resting close by? Shiiit, fugedaboudit! That is a damn thrill.
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These young players don’t know what gambling is. Summer storm and the power goes out. Your playing for 100$ rack with car lights lighting up the windows....doors open so it’s no so hot and every kind of mayfly June bug and possum running all over the table.

Make you wish you had a pocket frog like old Scotty


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K

KMRUNOUT

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jay helfert said:
I'll take my Delta 13 triangle and lay down a nice solid rack and we can play the game from there. If you ever watch any of the matches where I racked the balls, the wing ball was not flying in.
.
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That doesn't sound like a nice solid rack then. If the rack is tight, there will be lots of wing balls flying in.

KMRUNOUT




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Paul Schofield

Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
All of this, every bit of it, the contortions, gadgets, and flip flopping rules, tournament after tournament, year after year, is an effort to save the ball-on-the-break. It is not worth it. Just get rid of it and be done with it.
 
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N

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
greyghost said:
These young players don’t know what gambling is. Summer storm and the power goes out. Your playing for 100$ rack with car lights lighting up the windows....doors open so it’s no so hot and every kind of mayfly June bug and possum running all over the table.

Make you wish you had a pocket frog like old Scotty


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Brings back memories of playing in the Naval barracks by cigarette lighters with a 2'x2' chunk of cloth missing.
 
C

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
OK, I have an idea.

Rack your own, 10-15 second rack clock, at the end of the 10-15 seconds the player has to break with whatever they have.

Let them rack how they want but if they can't do it in 15 seconds, tough. No more fiddling with the racks. 9 ball spots if made on the break.
 
R

RiverCity

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have another idea. Have a players meeting before big tournaments, explaining that everyone will rack for their opponents. The racks are expected to be random, and honest, and the breaker cannot check the rack.

Anyone who willfully refuses to comply/gets caught purposely pattern racking or slugging racks etc, will be automatically disqualified and blackballed from ever competing in that particular tournament ever again.

If all tournaments did this, the racking bullshit that has been ALLOWED to happen by TOURNAMENT DIRECTORS should quickly cease.

Who would have thunk it, when you let the inmates run the asylum there are problems.
 
J

jburkm002

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know it's the way it's always been done. Why not rack all the balls randomly except for the 9 ball. Does the one necessarily have to be racked in the front. I get not making it the wing ball. Just an idea to mix it up.

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1

1sttbone

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Shane since high school

Knowing Shane since he was in high school he figured out from good coaching that the break was the most important shot in eight-ball and rotation games.. He also Learned He couldn't compete with great players without a great safety game..Shane liked to practice at a rapid valley pool room that was quiet. He would arrive at noon and leave at midnight somedays only practicing the break.. He was taught to always rack tight but to change the angle of attack to the rack depending on the table. He prefers the magic rack because he always gets a tight rack and saves a lot of time not fidgeting with trying to get a tight rack..Cheating on the rack is not Shanes MO..
 
greyghost

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
jburkm002 said:
I know it's the way it's always been done. Why not rack all the balls randomly except for the 9 ball. Does the one necessarily have to be racked in the front. I get not making it the wing ball. Just an idea to mix it up.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
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Lol put the one on the wing and break it trick 8 ball style lol


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Johnny Rosato

Johnny Rosato

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Alternate break.
Rig-rack your own balls as long as they fit inside the triangle.
Lag or coin flip determines who gets to cheat first.

It's just that simple folks!
 
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