an open letter to apa haters

sbpoolleague said:

I may come across as a dick when I speak about the APA, but my feelings come from these three principles:

1) I am fundamentally opposed to any local amateur sports league that is "for profit".
In my area any non-profit leagues are a shit show, the only league that's not is for profit

2) I am in strong support of a single national (if not international) handicapping system for pocket billiards. (Preferably FargoRate) agreed

3) I am in strong support of a uniform set of rules for all games pocket billiards. (Preferably WPA)agreed

There ya have it. I'm not going to change. I know you won't either.

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See red text above

justaplayer said:

Let me make it clear how the APA is a poor return on your investment. If I ran a tournament and kept 70 percent of the entry fees, would you consider that excessive? All that money going to the board and operations of the APA and other leagues helps pool how??? Please give me a genuine example of how leagues give back to really support pool.

As for being a drain on pool, APA has dramatically reduced the number of players who may have otherwise progressed to playing pool in a less than casual way...be that big table, other games...whatever. Locally in 5 years I've seen only a couple guys move into mediocre amateur skill levels who weren't players a few years ago. Used to be at least a handful every year that would join the ranks of more avid players. Some would progress to higher levels. These guys learn about pool, it's culture, the players and attend the regional events. They have league events alongside pro events in Vegas and league players have no idea who the stars of the game are and they don't even go to watch.

What I'm saying above are the dynamics that lead us to where the game is now...going nowhere. When you kill pool locally on a nationwide scale, its a death sentence.

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$ value per outing
(per person)
league - fees < $20 + beverages

Movies with snacks $30-40

Golf with beer $60+

league is a good value for the amount of time you spend per $

justaplayer said:

Let me make it clear how the APA is a poor return on your investment. If I ran a tournament and kept 70 percent of the entry fees, would you consider that excessive? All that money going to the board and operations of the APA and other leagues helps pool how??? Please give me a genuine example of how leagues give back to really support pool.

As for being a drain on pool, APA has dramatically reduced the number of players who may have otherwise progressed to playing pool in a less than casual way...be that big table, other games...whatever. Locally in 5 years I've seen only a couple guys move into mediocre amateur skill levels who weren't players a few years ago. Used to be at least a handful every year that would join the ranks of more avid players. Some would progress to higher levels. These guys learn about pool, it's culture, the players and attend the regional events. They have league events alongside pro events in Vegas and league players have no idea who the stars of the game are and they don't even go to watch.

What I'm saying above are the dynamics that lead us to where the game is now...going nowhere. When you kill pool locally on a nationwide scale, its a death sentence.

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I guess it depends on what you consider to be a return. Obviously are are playing pool to make money so your view is understandable - the more fish, the greater your return.
I don't play pool to make money, I absolutely will not gamble at pool with my money, and I'm an APA player, and I play because I want to. I have taken time to learn the game, the great players, the history, the technical aspects and the art of the game. I'm not concerned with what a pay out might be, I'd much rather just win, and I believe that the leagues, in particular The APA have really kept pool alive here in the United States.
The APA didn't contribute to the what ales pool today, the economy did. Bar owners have told me if it wasn't for the pool leagues they would have had to close down.
Why don't you just do your bit and not worry about anyone else. Not everyone wants to become a pro. Did you consider at all that maybe that hand full you talked about see that pool on a pro level doesn't really offer a stable career and the ones that advance to what might satisfy you would have anyway.
I've come a long way since I started and I work on my game, I practice at least a couple of hours a day, usually quite a bit more, but I have no desire to play in other leagues or becole a pro. I find that when you put money on the table the asshole factor increases by at least 10, I'd rather just play, let someone else worry about the money.
How many pool players do you suppose there are here in this country?
I'll bet that about 250,000 think you're wrong

justaplayer said:

In masters here I "won" $500 bucks to go to Vegas which covered about 25% of the cost of going to the Riviera Casino.... where blackjack deers dealt me 16 until I went broke...Its a farce

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If you play pool leagues to make money please excuse while I change my undies, got a lil pee on them.

justaplayer said:

You are missing the point.

When a company takes money like this and gives nothing back, how does that help preserve and grow the game? Its a corporation....there is no altruistic vision for APA.

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I tend to agree. The APA should contribute to pool as a sport a lot more than they do. They're self-contained and don't care about the bigger picture and the sport dying, but they should. Even from a selfish, for-profit perspective, they should be doing a lot more.

justaplayer said:

In masters here I "won" $500 bucks to go to Vegas which covered about 25% of the cost of going to the Riviera Casino.... where blackjack deers dealt me 16 until I went broke...Its a farce

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25%? Geeze, I'm beginning to see why you think the way you do.
How long ago were you at the Riv?
For $500 I can get a reasonably nice room at a strip hotel, pay for my flight and eat and drink
reasonably well, and pay for several mini's for at least 3 or 4 days.

lorider said:

I have a question for you and justaplayer ...who you quoted also.

Do either of you play bcapl ?

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Not available here. Nor would I be interested.

I play for money, tournaments for money and go to events like SBE / Derby City for money. I've consistently made money at pool for 2 decades, it pays for anything I want to go play in and has kept money in my pocket. Sure you go bust sometimes, but winning 60 percent of the time and staying in action is all you gotta do to stay very far ahead.

justaplayer said:

Not available here. Nor would I be interested.

I play for money, tournaments for money and go to events like SBE / Derby City for money. I've consistently made money at pool for 2 decades, it pays for anything I want to go play in and has kept money in my pocket. Sure you go bust sometimes, but winning 60 percent of the time and staying in action is all you gotta do to stay very far ahead.

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Buzz kill here but if you average your time out you are not making money. All day in the hall for a couple of days for a maybe versus real work? I know it feels good but unless you only make$15 an hour your below the Mendoza line.

lorider said:

You naysayers need to get your chit together. Half of you say the apa is a pyramid scheme to force teams to break up and acquire new players to join.

The other half say apa players are nothing but bangers who will never improve.

So the question is....which bunch of ya'll are right ?

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Not sure those two things are mutually exclusive.

RFranklin said:

Buzz kill here but if you average your time out you are not making money. All day in the hall for a couple of days for a maybe versus real work? I know it feels good but unless you only make$15 an hour your below the Mendoza line.

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I make 112k a year....last week in an 8 hour session I made $600 tax free gambling. Its working out just fine. I used to consistently make 6 to 8k a year off pool after expenses. Getting harder to do as the action dries up and the fish swim away.

I don't spend time in the pool hall unless there's action. I have 2 tables home to play on whenever I like. So if I'm out I'm in action.

lorider said:

Am I the only one that sees the hypocrisy in this post. ?

First I want to say that I have no problem how you spend your money or how often you visit a pool room .

The problem I have with your post is that you only go if you are in action. Most guys that are in action dont spend money in a pool room....they are there to win money.


People like you keep saying league players are the death of pool. League players oughta support pros.

What do you do to support pros and keep pool halls open ?

I make less than half what you make and i guarantee you I spend twice as much in a week at a pool hall than you do. other league players in my area pls several nights a week.

I asked earlier if you played bcapl. Your answer was no that it was not available in your area and you would not join if it was available.

Since you think league players oughta support pros why dont you put your money where your mouth is and start a bcapl league in your area since they do support pros.

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You don't know anything about what pool is. Bunch of idiots playing for patches.

Thanks for keeping the rooms open for us, but I'd rather see every room close then have be in the pool hall on league nights.

Action

justaplayer said:

I make 112k a year....last week in an 8 hour session I made $600 tax free gambling. Its working out just fine. I used to consistently make 6 to 8k a year off pool after expenses. Getting harder to do as the action dries up and the fish swim away.

I don't spend time in the pool hall unless there's action. I have 2 tables home to play on whenever I like. So if I'm out I'm in action.

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Where do you live? I'll give you some action. I'll even wear my APA shirt.

justaplayer said:

You don't know anything about what pool is. Bunch of idiots playing for patches.

Thanks for keeping the rooms open for us, but I'd rather see every room close then have be in the pool hall on league nights.

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let me guess.. your shoes are about 10 sizes too big aren't they clown

RFranklin said:

Where do you live? I'll give you some action. I'll even wear my APA shirt.

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He's all talk, probably bad action too.
He's just an APA reject looking for attention.

RFranklin said:

Where do you live? I'll give you some action. I'll even wear my APA shirt.

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Nowhere near Texas

If you make it to Super Billiards you got action. 3 sets up to 500 each. Bring your shirt too. PM me because I mean every word. We can post ahead too.

Celophanewrap said:

He's all talk, probably bad action too.
He's just an APA reject looking for attention.

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Sure guys...
Gambling is what I do.
Meanwhile you guys get thrown out of your boys club if you gamble.
You got the same offer Franklin does.
SBE 2017 ill play any fool with an APA card. Why wouldn't I? Guys like you have no game. It's stealing.
Pm me any of you, ill take all your action.

j_zippel said:

let me guess.. your shoes are about 10 sizes too big aren't they clown

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Zippy, ill give you the 7 because you are "special".

justaplayer said:

Zippy, ill give you the 7 because you are "special".

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Lol.. Make the 5 wild and I'm your huckleberry.

Just wear those big red shoes please!


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