What does it mean? (CB spinning after hitting stack on break shot)

app4dstn

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
hi all. want to start by saying i'm a huge fan of this sub forum and all the knowledge and links to runs that get posted here. so, to all you folk who've been so generous, i thank you.

i've been playing about 1.5 years now. joined AZB shortly after that. when i first saw what 14.1 runs were, i was immediately fascinated. but spent most of my time/energy focused on my win-loss record in league 8 ball. i recently decided to step away from that and spend time in my basement doing "work", instead of "play".


as related to 14.1, previously, i couldn't make the opening BIH break shot consistently, so bowliards was my choice for live ball. but i'm now at the point where i actually can make that shot and get into the stack. what i've observed is that a ridiculously high % of the time my CB is spinning where it has come to rest. yesterday, i had to stay home cause one of my kids was sick (bummer :rolleyes:), so it was equal parts domestic work and basement work. out of maybe 30 break shots, i'd say all but one or two had this characteristic. whether i ended up stuck where i made initial contact, or down to the foot rail, or back to the middle or kitchen.... whether it had additional contact with other balls after initial contact, whether it went to a rail or not.... when i had enough spread to find another shot (and when i didn't), the CB would cease rolling, but would still be spinning (about its vertical axis). i use a measle ball, btw.

on one hand, it's a cool visual. and i'm thrilled that i'm not having to rack/re-rack to infinity.

but... am i doing it wrong? is the spinning ball telling me that i'm being inefficient/wasteful.... ie that energy could have produced a more optimal spread, or that i could achieve the same spread but with a more controlled pocketing speed?

is it telling me that i'm not square enough to the ball that i do make contact with?

or is this a natural, explainable and frequent outcome?

fwiw, i typically start with a CB-break ball orientation that's more or less parallel (ie on a line between diamonds on the short rail, parallel to the long rail) and at the 1st diamond, or closer to the middle... 1.5, 1.75 diamonds.

i'll be spending a ton of time doing this and hopefully figuring it out and continuing to bootstrap myself upward. but wanna tap into the wisdom of the crowd now.

again, a belated thanks to all you guys for sparking my interest and sharing great knowledge and material. and an additional one going forward... i'm pretty sure there will be more questions in the future.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... but... am i doing it wrong? is the spinning ball telling me that i'm being inefficient/wasteful.... ie that energy could have produced a more optimal spread, or that i could achieve the same spread but with a more controlled pocketing speed?
...
The cue ball is spinning because you are not hitting it on the vertical axis. (Sometime a ball will pick up a little spin from hitting another ball or a fair amount of spin from hitting a cushion, but if the cue ball does what you describe, it has spin because you put that spin on it.)

On many 14.1 break shots you want to use side spin on the cue ball to get it to the right place on the table after the break.

I urge you to get Willie Mosconi's book, "Winning Pocket Billiards". You can get this delivered to your door for $5 from Amazon. Willie will show you why you want to use side spin on some break shots.

But if you have no reason to use side spin, it is a waste of energy. Related to which, some people think the side spin will scatter the balls like a weed whacker or a windmill. They're wrong.
 

app4dstn

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The cue ball is spinning because you are not hitting it on the vertical axis. (Sometime a ball will pick up a little spin from hitting another ball or a fair amount of spin from hitting a cushion, but if the cue ball does what you describe, it has spin because you put that spin on it.)

On many 14.1 break shots you want to use side spin on the cue ball to get it to the right place on the table after the break.

I urge you to get Willie Mosconi's book, "Winning Pocket Billiards". You can get this delivered to your door for $5 from Amazon. Willie will show you why you want to use side spin on some break shots.

But if you have no reason to use side spin, it is a waste of energy. Related to which, some people think the side spin will scatter the balls like a weed whacker or a windmill. They're wrong.

ok..... still processing this, but .... ok, starting to see the light.

it wouldn't have occurred to me that *I* was the source of that magnitude of side spin. and that's based on the amount of spin i generated when calculating my pivot point and hitting stop shots that spun in place. but i can start to grasp it now. i'm hitting it much harder in this situation.

i had some jumbled theory last night that the linear velocity, plus the mass of the racked balls, plus *some* (what? i don't know) angle of incidence resulted in greatly diminished exit velocity and a huge amount of sidespin.

or two or more closely occurring contacts was shearing the CB.

and that either/both happened rather frequently.

nooooo, it's me. it makes sense to me now.

(i'm using some small amount of outside most of the time. to make the break ball, not necessarily for CB influence. back to square one.)

thank you!
 

app4dstn

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Could you make a video?

i don't do any youtube. but i'll try to get something onto a hosting site and get a link to it in here. maybe not until monday, as i won't be near a keyboard until then. but most definitely i'll be working/practicing this over the weekend.
 
Top