You make me laugh.
I don't grip my cue stick, I CRADLE it!
I actually had a finger cut off, now it's easier to cradle the stick.
Fran is on the right track.
A grip causes many cueing errors.
randyg
How to grip the cue.
- Thread starter tableroll
- Start date
You make me laugh.
I don't grip my cue stick, I CRADLE it!
I actually had a finger cut off, now it's easier to cradle the stick.
Fran is on the right track.
A grip causes many cueing errors.
randyg
Ha, Ha. Well let me ponder amputation! I have been using my middle finger and ring finger only. Seems to be working out OK in cradle mode.
Of course we're not talking about a death grip on the cue. You and Fran make the word "grip" seem like too strong of a word to describe the way a pool cue is held. Using the same strict logic, the word "cradle" is too weak to describe how to hold a cue.
A light grip with the fingers and thumb (whichever finger or fingers feel most comfortable), can be used with very little or absolutely zero cradling, like Efren or Bustamonte. But a cradle itself is not sufficient without some gripping pressure applied, typically involving the thumb and index finger or thumb and index along with the middle finger. To say you don't grip the cue, but simply allow it to lay cradled in your hand is just unrealistic.
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Sorry if I offended you, maybe I am being realistic.
Grab a cue and grip it as hard as you can. Now try to stroke with that setup.
A Cradle isn't how you hold it BUT how much tension is applied.
I did't say drop the cue, I stated CRADLE!
randyg
You didn't offend me at all. Sorry if my post seemed defensive. It certainly wasn't meant to be defensive or confrontational. I was just highlighting a common complaint here in the instructor forum about some terms being too confusing or ambiguous or contradictory. And this grip topic is an excellent example of that.
A certain amount of grip pressure is necessary in order to stroke the cue. Thinking of your grip as a cradle is fine, but it's a cradle with a light grip included. The op described a standard/fundamental grip for holding the cue, using terminology that every pool player understands.
We know the grip hand is supposed to be loose, but not too loose, not simply cradling the cue in the hand with no holding pressure. We know a light grip is needed by using the thumb and one or more fingers. Calling it a "grip" is perfectly fine and has been for a long time. I think sometimes the instruction here is muddied when attempts are made to redefine or abolish terms that we've all used and understood for years.
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See, this is where you have to be careful. The standard description that everyone understands may not necessarily be the best. In fact, it may be something brought forward from the past that can be improved upon. You have to teach yourself to think out of the box and learn to discover things for yourself. And don't be skeptical of trying out something that might initially seem odd to you.
I agree 100% with the bold. But I also believe the op described a very good grip hand technique. Of course, to each their own. I'm certainly not the type to follow standards simply because that's what others have done for years.
I think to get "good" you can use any of the standard "best practices" rules like the original poster described. I think to get excellent you need to figure out what works best for you. Most never spend the time to get their stroke from the first category to the second, IMO.
Look at these two videos I took of Tony Robles.
First video - observe the grip and reconcile with this thread.
https://youtu.be/q8QfaBcNiy0
Second video - Note that the cue is nearly falling out of his hand/cradle.
https://youtu.be/11Wx1oVETpg?t=32
My conclusion: Do what works for you but keep in mind that most great players do not have a death grip on the cue. It is very lightly held. Thorsten H. said that while his grip looks tight, this is not so. He said his hand is like a cage surrounding the cue, not squeezing it.
For my own game, I have found that relaxing the grip is key. The problem is that I often think my grip is relaxed when it really isn't so when balls aren't going as they should, that's my first place to look. Fran said it well when she commented that someone who posted a problem they had with their stroke was prioritizing their hand over their forearm. ENGLISH! Rick was right because he always said not enough attention is paid to the "connection to the cue."
Look at these two videos I took of Tony Robles.
First video - observe the grip and reconcile with this thread.
https://youtu.be/q8QfaBcNiy0
Second video - Note that the cue is nearly falling out of his hand/cradle.
https://youtu.be/11Wx1oVETpg?t=32
My conclusion: Do what works for you but keep in mind that most great players do not have a death grip on the cue. It is very lightly held. Thorsten H. said that while his grip looks tight, this is not so. He said his hand is like a cage surrounding the cue, not squeezing it.
For my own game, I have found that relaxing the grip is key. The problem is that I often think my grip is relaxed when it really isn't so when balls aren't going as they should, that's my first place to look. Fran said it well when she commented that someone who posted a problem they had with their stroke was prioritizing their hand over their forearm. ENGLISH! Rick was right because he always said not enough attention is paid to the "connection to the cue."
Tony is a classic example of a modern grip --- full fisted and relaxed with the pinkie on the cue. He adjusts his grip pressure as needed for the particular shot but the grip itself remains constant. I know his game well and we've had many discussions over the years. We played and taught out of the same room for years.
I never pay attention to my grip. Maybe as a beginner I did, but that was 35 years ago.
So last night, while playing some cheap $40 races to 50 in 14.1, I found myself paying attention to my opponent's grip, then I started thinking about my grip, consciously focusing on which fingers were doing most of the work. And of course this caused me to start missing quite a few simple shots!
It took a while to escape this self-analysis mode and begin running balls again. Anyway, I noticed that all of my fingers touch/cradle the cue, and all but my pinky share in the actual gripping of the cue, along with the thumb. And each finger feels a certain amount of pressure as the cue moves back and forth. Sometimes the pressure could only be felt with the index and middle fingers, and other times only the index finger. I found it to be shot dependent, like the bridge hand -- something that just happens automatically without having to consciously make it happen.
So last night, while playing some cheap $40 races to 50 in 14.1, I found myself paying attention to my opponent's grip, then I started thinking about my grip, consciously focusing on which fingers were doing most of the work. And of course this caused me to start missing quite a few simple shots!
It took a while to escape this self-analysis mode and begin running balls again. Anyway, I noticed that all of my fingers touch/cradle the cue, and all but my pinky share in the actual gripping of the cue, along with the thumb. And each finger feels a certain amount of pressure as the cue moves back and forth. Sometimes the pressure could only be felt with the index and middle fingers, and other times only the index finger. I found it to be shot dependent, like the bridge hand -- something that just happens automatically without having to consciously make it happen.
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I too find it shot dependant. And I have noticed I instinctively keep my little finger off the cue.
Well, you know it's not instinct because humans don't have 'em, so you created a habit of keeping your pinkie off the cue. Have you ever tried to figure out why you do it? Could be interesting if you took the time to analyze it a bit.
Yes, The pinkie seems to throw the shot off a bit. Do you keep yours on the cue? Do you have all fingers on your cue? Do you cock your wrist back a bit on the backstroke?
As I explained before, I do keep a full fist on the cue for most shots. I don't squeeze my hand or try to manipulate the cue with my hand (unless the shot calls for it). As a result, as I move my arm through, the pressure points of my fingers change. For example on the back stroke my pinkie releases pressure, but doesn't leave the cue. And near the end of the forward stroke, my thumb and index fingers release most of their pressure as the cue moves through and the pressure increases on the back part of my hand.
This is what happens naturally with your hand when you don't try to manipulate the cue and without any wrist cocking.
https://youtu.be/u8KsVm9ePlk?t=2262
This man ran 626 balls by letting the cue slide.
This man ran 626 balls by letting the cue slide.
Yup. I agree with that as well.
I don't see the cue slipping. Can you be specific about when in the stroke the cue slides through the hand and in which direction?
Well, iirc, in your article in BD, you wrote a good stroke is a good throwing action.
Yup. I would've written that.