9 Ball WPA Rules Question

John Biddle · May 26, 2018

As I read the WPA rules for 9 Ball, at least 4 object balls must be driven to one or more rails for the break to be legal. My question is what to do if that does not happen. I can't find anything about this in the rules

There are specific penalties for break fouls in 14.1 (4.3 b) and in 8 Ball (3.3 d 1-3) but not for 9 or 10 Ball.

These are the 3 answers I got when asking other players, since I couldn't find anything in the rules:

There must be a rebreak and the non-breaking player gets to choose who breaks.
The non-breaking player could take the table as is or call for a rebreak while getting to choose who does the rebreak.
It's just a normal foul and non-breaking player gets BIH.

#3 has the problem of a cluster of balls left when there's a miscue on the break, but the pack was hit.

There's also this question: If the non-breaking player gets to take the break away from the breaking player, does it affect alternate breaking? That is, if Player 1 breaks 1st in an alternating breaks scenario, and he commits a break foul by only getting 3 balls to rails, does he break again in rack 2? Seems like he should, otherwise the punishment of losing the break isn't really much of a punishment.

Hits 'em Hard · May 26, 2018

John Biddle said:
As I read the WPA rules for 9 Ball, at least 4 object balls must be driven to one or more rails for the break to be legal. My question is what to do if that does not happen. I can't find anything about this in the rules

There are specific penalties for break fouls in 14.1 (4.3 b) and in 8 Ball (3.3 d 1-3) but not for 9 or 10 Ball.

These are the 3 answers I got when asking other players, since I couldn't find anything in the rules:

There must be a rebreak and the non-breaking player gets to choose who breaks.

The non-breaking player could take the table as is or call for a rebreak while getting to choose who does the rebreak.

It's just a normal foul and non-breaking player gets BIH.

#3 has the problem of a cluster of balls left when there's a miscue on the break, but the pack was hit.

There's also this question: If the non-breaking player gets to take the break away from the breaking player, does it affect alternate breaking? That is, if Player 1 breaks 1st in an alternating breaks scenario, and he commits a break foul by only getting 3 balls to rails, does he break again in rack 2? Seems like he should, otherwise the punishment of losing the break isn't really much of a punishment.

A rack cannot begin until a legal break is made for the person breaking. If they don’t satisfy the conditions for a legal break the opponent gets the option of re-rack/break or play as is. The 1 ball must be struck first, intentionally striking another ball first is an unsportsmanlike penalty.

MattPoland · May 26, 2018

In those rules as published, I’d interpret it as a standard BIH foul.

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Bob Jewett · May 26, 2018

Hits 'em Hard said:
A rack cannot begin until a legal break is made for the person breaking. If they don’t satisfy the conditions for a legal break the opponent gets the option of re-rack/break or play as is. The 1 ball must be struck first, intentionally striking another ball first is an unsportsmanlike penalty.

This is not in the WPA rules. They are available on-line at the WPA website, wpapool.com

The rule is not completely clear. Failure to drive four balls to cushions is a foul. The penalty for a foul is ball in hand for the opponent. The rule would be clearer if rule 2.3b said explicitly that failure to get four balls to cushions is a standard foul.

If the player miscues and hits nothing on the break, it is a foul and the opponent gets ball in hand, as for all standard fouls.

John Biddle · May 27, 2018

Thanks Bob. Seems like they would want to address this next time any changes are made.

cue4me · May 27, 2018

I've seen this in tournaments where when player "A" commits the foul of hitting the rack, but not driving 4 balls to a cushion, player "B" has the option of breaking or having player "A" break again. With alternating break, even if player "B" exercised his option to break in the rack where the foul occurred, it is still his break in the next rack.

Bob Jewett · May 27, 2018

cue4me said:
I've seen this in tournaments where when player "A" commits the foul of hitting the rack, but not driving 4 balls to a cushion, player "B" has the option of breaking or having player "A" break again. ...

I don't think that follows any current official rule set. There may have been an option before. I think simply making it a foul with the standard penalty for a foul is a lot simpler way to do things.

MattPoland · May 27, 2018

Bob Jewett said:
I don't think that follows any current official rule set. There may have been an option before. I think simply making it a foul with the standard penalty for a foul is a lot simpler way to do things.

I agree you’re referring to the rules as written.

In terms of simpler, isn’t there one caveat? If Player A attempts a break, miscues, hits the rack barely, only a couple balls dribble off, and the rest stay in a tight pack. Wouldn’t a re-rack make more sense than Player B trying to deal with that mess via ball-in-hand? Or is that where you try to 3-foul your opponent? Or at least develop the pack with safeties? Feels counter to the spirit of 9-ball when it turns into 14.1.

Or am I reading into it wrong?

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Bob Jewett · May 28, 2018

MattPoland said:
I agree you’re referring to the rules as written.

In terms of simpler, isn’t there one caveat? If Player A attempts a break, miscues, hits the rack barely, only a couple balls dribble off, and the rest stay in a tight pack. Wouldn’t a re-rack make more sense than Player B trying to deal with that mess via ball-in-hand? Or is that where you try to 3-foul your opponent? Or at least develop the pack with safeties? Feels counter to the spirit of 9-ball when it turns into 14.1.

Or am I reading into it wrong?

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You play a safe off a nearly full rack with ball in hand. It will get the eyeballers buzzing. There is nothing wrong with that.

Hits 'em Hard · May 28, 2018

Bob Jewett said:
This is not in the WPA rules. They are available on-line at the WPA website, wpapool.com

The rule is not completely clear. Failure to drive four balls to cushions is a foul. The penalty for a foul is ball in hand for the opponent. The rule would be clearer if rule 2.3b said explicitly that failure to get four balls to cushions is a standard foul.

If the player miscues and hits nothing on the break, it is a foul and the opponent gets ball in hand, as for all standard fouls.

Upon further reading, yes I was wrong a bit. Intentionally playing the break shot to result in a foul is still unsportsmanlike conduct though. Too many different rule sets for determining when the rack actually begins though. Too much confusion there.

AtLarge · May 28, 2018

Hits 'em Hard said:
... Intentionally playing the break shot to result in a foul is still unsportsmanlike conduct though. ...

Under WPA rules? Aren't intentional fouls allowed on any shot, giving the opponent BIH?

Are you saying that some referees would consider that an intentional foul on the break "brings disrepute to the sport" or "changes the game to the extent that it cannot be played fairly"?

Hits 'em Hard · May 29, 2018

AtLarge said:
Under WPA rules? Aren't intentional fouls allowed on any shot, giving the opponent BIH?

Are you saying that some referees would consider that an intentional foul on the break "brings disrepute to the sport" or "changes the game to the extent that it cannot be played fairly"?

Yes, yes, and yes.

GideonF · May 29, 2018

AtLarge said:
Under WPA rules? Aren't intentional fouls allowed on any shot, giving the opponent BIH?

Are you saying that some referees would consider that an intentional foul on the break "brings disrepute to the sport" or "changes the game to the extent that it cannot be played fairly"?

I know this doesn't answer your question, but it is hard for me to imagine how it would ever be a player's advantage to intentionally foul on the break in 9b, given the standard response (described by Bob earlier).

Bob Jewett · May 29, 2018

GideonF said:
I know this doesn't answer your question, but it is hard for me to imagine how it would ever be a player's advantage to intentionally foul on the break in 9b, given the standard response (described by Bob earlier).

One way it could work is if your opponent didn't know the rules and grabbed the triangle and started to re-rack. FOUL! And then you get ball in hand or maybe win the game on an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty.

It's good to know what rules you're playing by.

Bob Jewett · May 29, 2018

Hits 'em Hard said:
.. Intentionally playing the break shot to result in a foul is still unsportsmanlike conduct though. ...

Well, actually, no, it is not. A player is permitted to play any shot he pleases at any time it is his turn to play with very few exceptions. If the shot is a foul, there is a penalty for it. There are certain techniques that are not permitted on shots, such as intentional miscues, and using such a technique is unsportsmanlike conduct.

MattPoland · May 29, 2018

Reminds me of when I watched a strong player intentionally go up to an object ball and hit it (as if it was the cueball) to send it to a place that ties balls up because he couldn’t hit a return safety with the cueball. I think that’s something that may be a foul if accidental but clearly unsportsmanlike when intentional.

Respectfully, Matt
(I don’t take myself too seriously. I hope you can return the favor.)

Bob Jewett · May 29, 2018

MattPoland said:
Reminds me of when I watched a strong player intentionally go up to an object ball and hit it (as if it was the cueball) to send it to a place that ties balls up because he couldn’t hit a return safety with the cueball. I think that’s something that may be a foul if accidental but clearly unsportsmanlike when intentional.
...

Yes, and in fact it is explicitly unsportsmanlike conduct. Here is part of the rule from Section 6:

6.17 Unsportsmanlike Conduct
...
Unsportsmanlike conduct is any intentional behavior that brings disrepute to the sport or
which disrupts or changes the game to the extent that it cannot be played fairly. It includes
(a) distracting the opponent;
(b) changing the position of the balls in play other than by a shot;
(c) playing a shot by intentionally miscuing;
...

and here is the definition you need to know to understand the rule:

8.2 Shot
A shot begins when the tip contacts the cue ball due to a forward stroke motion of the cue stick. A shot ends when all balls in play have stopped moving and spinning. A shot is said to be legal if the shooter did not foul during the shot.

9 Ball WPA Rules Question

John Biddle

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Hits 'em Hard

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MattPoland

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Bob Jewett

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John Biddle

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cue4me

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MattPoland

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Hits 'em Hard

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AtLarge

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