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05-22-2013, 05:58 PM

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Originally Posted by AzHousePro View Post
In fairness, my understanding is that the Seminoles left because the board members who liked pool were replaced by board members who didn't care as much for pool. It had nothing to do with whether they were making money from pool.

Mike
I knew it was stopped for some reason, thanks for the clarification as to exactly why. That sucks because they were putting some decent money into pro pool.


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05-22-2013, 06:06 PM

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Originally Posted by justadub View Post
Take this for what its worth, coming from a newbie to all things pool related....

It seemed rather obvious to me that Bonus Ball could have tried to coexist within the existing industry, but chose not to. Whether that is good or bad is up to the individual observer.

Myself, I feel that it was short -sighted to pee in the industry cheerio bowl, and not only work around existing major events, but to promote the fact that they were doing so. Thus not creating strife with those who have kept these events going year after year, but also taking advantage of those events to promote their product. (Why, oh why were they not at SBE, showing off their product in person to a HUGE audience?)

Then again, what do I know? I'm pretty sure I know that I'm not really interested in Bonus Ball very much. Best of luck, to everyone in the industry.
Almost exactly my earlier post Dub. If they would have tried to work with others I would have tried to be on board. It seems they have had so many missteps along the way. Pool is too small to step on other's toes. Because of that, I believe they don't have my viewership. Good luck to the BB guys.

To be honest, I am all for anything that can help, but not at the expense of others. Especially when it would have been very easy to make it go the other way.
  
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05-22-2013, 06:21 PM

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Originally Posted by brandoncook26 View Post
Almost exactly my earlier post Dub. If they would have tried to work with others I would have tried to be on board. It seems they have had so many missteps along the way. Pool is too small to step on other's toes. Because of that, I believe they don't have my viewership. Good luck to the BB guys.

To be honest, I am all for anything that can help, but not at the expense of others. Especially when it would have been very easy to make it go the other way.
I am not sure people understand that Bonus Ball asked the players which events they would like to play in and worked with the players so they are able to attend those events if they choose to, it really is up to the players what they want to play. Bonus Ball is a business and they have a permanent venue which has cost involved so shutting down a week here and there to accommodate the other promoters does not make a ton of sense and would cost many thousands of dollars to do so.

Another thing people do not understand is that not all Bonus Ball players will be playing every weekend so they will be able to attend events along with having money from working at Bonus Ball to do so also. I think we will see what the players do and how the fields are in the events, I think attendance will be just fine to be honest. I spoke with Chris from California Billiard Club about his tournament he is putting on and he was thinking of canceling. I told him the list of players who are not playing who could attend his tournament and believe his event will have a bigger pro turnout then last year with most of the players being on the west coast for Bonus Ball so here is a promoter and tournament that will most likely see a benefit from it I feel.


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05-22-2013, 06:23 PM

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Originally Posted by jay helfert View Post
Off the phone with Greg Sullivan...
Larry may have agreed to use Diamond tables at one point, but that all went south when Diamond added the clause that was conditional on us using a 10' table in our TV arena (which doesn't interest us), yet have 9-footers in our practice rooms. It made no sense for our game, nor for our players. Plus it wouldn't physically fit in our arena.

They also later added a nearly 5-figure "installation" fee. That instantly ended any further dealings with Diamond. Sure, we never told them we found someone else, but nor did we ever agree to those terms. They essentially tried to sell us something, and we weren't interested. It's not the customers responsibility to refuse a sale.

Rasson gave us a great deal, paid all expenses, and outright gave us the tables we needed. They also offered to help promote the league, and they have a great modern product.

I still respect Greg at Diamond and enjoy his tables. There is no "bad guy" here. We simply didn't like the offer they made us and went elsewhere.
  
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they had 4 tournaments in a row without paying any of the players the prize money.
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Unhappy they had 4 tournaments in a row without paying any of the players the prize money. - 05-22-2013, 06:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Forsyth View Post
Jay,,a question--when RJ Reynolds was sued--was it because of the Strickland Runnout?
I can answer this one. No. The Strickland/Deuel encounter was at Romines Billiards and was after the Camel Tour had gone off of TV because of the tobacco ad court ruling. The lawsuit came about because RJR and the PBT could not agree on contractual issues and when Camel began its own tour (The Camel Pro Series) without the help of the PBT then the PBT sued RJR and won.

And the Strickland 11-rack runnout was on the PCA Tour at Champs in Dallas, Texas. Had nothing to do with the Camel Tour or Camel Pro Series or the PBT.

-Jerry[/QUOTE]

Champs Billiards? Ouch

I hear things about the history of the "Camel Tour" and one point that is VERY IMPORTANT is they had 4 tournaments in a row (maybe 5) without paying any of the players the prize money. I ask Jose Parica about this a couple of months ago because he won one of the tournaments and finished second in another if he got paid....he said "No, they still own me close to $40,000"

So the Camel Tour "went up in flames," and this was right about the time the ESPN tournament was happening that's been posted the last couple of days. This was a huge cross roads in the history of pool and looking back it was the "straw that broke the Camel's back". (no pun intended)


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05-22-2013, 06:26 PM

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Originally Posted by Fast Lenny View Post
I am not sure people understand that Bonus Ball asked the players which events they would like to play in and worked with the players so they are able to attend those events if they chose to, it really is up to the players what they want to play. Bonus Ball is a business and they have a permanent venue which has cost involved so shutting down a week here and there to accommodate the other promoters does not make a ton of sense and would cost many thousands of dollars to do so.

Another thing people do not understand is that not all Bonus Ball players will be playing every weekend so they will be able to attend events along with having money from working at Bonus Ball to do so also. I think we will see what the players do and how the fields are in the events, I think attendance will be just fine to be honest. I spoke with Chris from California Billiard Club about his tournament he is putting on and he was thinking of canceling. I told him the list of players who are not playing who could attend his tournament and believe his event will have a bigger pro turnout then last year with most of the players being on the west coast for Bonus Ball so here is a promoter and tournament that will most likely see a benefit from it I feel.
I understand what you're saying, but there's no way to tell until the chips fall where they do. In the end it will all be out there and we will all see what is going on, good or bad. I really hope the pros are able to make a sustainable living. I guess we are all waiting now to see how it turns out.
  
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05-22-2013, 06:44 PM

It appears that Bonus Ball will continue on its road at least for the foreseeable future, which means this first bona fide upcoming season.

Players aren't going to give up the so-called guaranteed money with BB. Who can blame them? Promoters of the past have promised big numbers for the players only to be disappointed. Unfortunately, the players have been living on alms for a long time.

Pool's past and current promoters other than BB have to feel slighted and you can't blame them for feeling that way as well. What they do for retaliation is entirely up to them, if anything.

All of the talk about current promoters helping out a fellow promoter (BB) and being summarily dismissed without even a phone call, is not a good sign for the integrity of BB. I am not connected to BB and don't know the details but on the surface, it sounds like a terrible way to treat a fellow promoter. Maybe there is another side to the story and Larry will share that with us?

Anyway, pool will continue on with or without BB, or current promoters. It has been a bumpy road these many decades, so nothing has changed and nothing will change until there is real unity in pool. That unity can come only if pool becomes a self-sustaining entity (television advertising). Perhaps International promoters like Badi Nazhat have this in mind and that brings this next subject to mind.

Bonus Ball doesn't conflict with The Ultimate 10 Ball Championship. This event is about 3 weeks away and there are 40 Men players signed up for this event (out of 128 available spots) and there is $75,000.00 of added money waiting for the Men players in addition to the purses bulging from the entry fees. Transportation costs from Memphis are nil. Hotel rates are CHEAP. The event is only 4 days long.

What is the Men players' reasoning behind not supporting THIS EVENT like it should be supported?


The women have been all over the Women's event and have practically filled their field already. (Two thumbs up for the women who have supported The Ultimate 10 Ball Championship).


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05-22-2013, 06:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathandumoulin View Post
Larry may have agreed to use Diamond tables at one point, but that all went south when Diamond added the clause that was conditional on us using a 10' table in our TV arena (which doesn't interest us), yet have 9-footers in our practice rooms. It made no sense for our game, nor for our players. Plus it wouldn't physically fit in our arena.

They also later added a nearly 5-figure "installation" fee. That instantly ended any further dealings with Diamond. Sure, we never told them we found someone else, but nor did we ever agree to those terms. They essentially tried to sell us something, and we weren't interested. It's not the customers responsibility to refuse a sale.

Rasson gave us a great deal, paid all expenses, and outright gave us the tables we needed. They also offered to help promote the league, and they have a great modern product.

I still respect Greg at Diamond and enjoy his tables. There is no "bad guy" here. We simply didn't like the offer they made us and went elsewhere.
This really sounds creepy! Like Greg doesn't have better things to do with his tables then ship them cross country for months! He did so with the understanding that his tables would get publicity allowing for a substantially reduced rate.

Now he gets no publicity and lost out on the use of his tables in another venue generating real money for him for the multiple months they have been out there. He has to arrange for their return and etc.

I can't believe you see nothing wrong!

KD

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05-22-2013, 06:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyA View Post
It appears that Bonus Ball will continue on its road at least for the foreseeable future, which means this first bona fide upcoming season.

Players aren't going to give up the so-called guaranteed money with BB. Who can blame them? Promoters of the past have promised big numbers for the players only to be disappointed. Unfortunately, the players have been living on alms for a long time.

Pool's past and current promoters other than BB have to feel slighted and you can't blame them for feeling that way as well. What they do for retaliation is entirely up to them, if anything.

All of the talk about current promoters helping out a fellow promoter (BB) and being summarily dismissed without even a phone call, is not a good sign for the integrity of BB. I am not connected to BB and don't know the details but on the surface, it sounds like a terrible way to treat a fellow promoter. Maybe there is another side to the story and Larry will share that with us?

Anyway, pool will continue on with or without BB, or current promoters. It has been a bumpy road these many decades, so nothing has changed and nothing will change until there is real unity in pool. That unity can come only if pool becomes a self-sustaining entity (television advertising). Perhaps International promoters like Badi Nazhat have this in mind and that brings this next subject to mind.

Bonus Ball doesn't conflict with The Ultimate 10 Ball Championship. This event is about 3 weeks away and there are 40 Men players signed up for this event (out of 128 available spots) and there is $75,000.00 of added money waiting for the Men players in addition to the purses bulging from the entry fees. Transportation costs from Memphis are nil. Hotel rates are CHEAP. The event is only 4 days long.

What is the Men players' reasoning behind not supporting THIS EVENT like it should be supported?


The women have been all over the Women's event and have practically filled their field already. (Two thumbs up for the women who have supported The Ultimate 10 Ball Championship).
Joey, I believe the players might be waiting for some Bonus Ball dough to pay entries, expenses and other stuff, usually they like to sign up last minute also.


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05-22-2013, 06:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyA View Post

Bonus Ball doesn't conflict with The Ultimate 10 Ball Championship. This event is about 3 weeks away and there are 40 Men players signed up for this event (out of 128 available spots) and there is $75,000.00 of added money waiting for the Men players in addition to the purses bulging from the entry fees. Transportation costs from Memphis are nil. Hotel rates are CHEAP. The event is only 4 days long.

What is the Men players' reasoning behind not supporting THIS EVENT like it should be supported?

That speaks volumes about the state of pro pool, here is a great event lots of added REAL $$$ and nobody is going, has it been so long since anyone won any $$$ they had to get real jobs? what is the explanation.


the Bonus Ball Locked up $$ isnt all that much after you subtract the expenses they will incure going and leaving Vegas and paying rent. They really aint locking up much $$ at all when you subtract over head.

Seems like $75K added that will be paid on the spot should attract more players, perhaps we just dont have that much talent left, i bet it will get fuller as time passes more of a regional event cause the $$$ is high enough someone will show up.


also the once bitten twice shy thing comes to mind, the Texas disaster(cant recall the city-they were $132,000 short, Chuck in Arizona who disappeared and mark griffen covered the top 7 players, US 9 ball open(that speaks for itself), after all that, i'd think twice.

I REALLY do wish you the best with this Joey, your a good person and done lots to help out, i deeply respect that


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05-22-2013, 06:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzHousePro View Post
In fairness, my understanding is that the Seminoles left because the board members who liked pool were replaced by board members who didn't care as much for pool. It had nothing to do with whether they were making money from pool.

Mike
How about the fact that their last tournament was a 50,000 added at Capones in FL that did not draw a full field... The pros did not support the Seminoles, why should they support the pros?


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05-22-2013, 07:05 PM

I think I've heard of this before, but what what the f@#$ is bonus ball?
  
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Mizerak classic - 05-22-2013, 07:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpope View Post
How about the fact that their last tournament was a 50,000 added at Capones in FL that did not draw a full field... The pros did not support the Seminoles, why should they support the pros?
I played in this event, Nicest venue and hardly any fans. Quit blaming the Indians !!!!!!!!
  
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05-22-2013, 07:11 PM

Hey Jay,when PBT sued RJR where did the money go to?
  
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05-22-2013, 07:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Dynomite View Post
I can't believe you see nothing wrong!
Why we should feel obligated to use a product from a company that is not in our best interest. Not only was the deal not acceptable or realistic, but another company made one much better. Diamond is a great product, paying to use tables that don't meet our requirements makes absolutely zero sense.

By going with Rasson we gain equity/assets with a product we want, yet you're saying we're at fault for refusing to pay nearly 10 grand to borrow a product we don't want.
  
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