Refs with Gloves—a science question

RichSchultz · Sep 8, 2019

Ok, think this through with me.

When, in a pro tourney, a player needs to hit a shot with more grab on the felt for some reason, would it help if they ask a ref to clean the cue ball?

Think about static electricity...seems the rubbing would generate some static against the cloth?

Does this make sense?

garczar · Sep 8, 2019

RichSchultz said:
Ok, think this through with me.

When, in a pro tourney, a player needs to hit a shot with more grab on the felt for some reason, would it help if they ask a ref to clean the cue ball?

Think about static electricity...seems the rubbing would generate some static against the cloth?

Does this make sense?

I'm sure Jewett or Dr.Dave will chime in but i just don't see that changing the outcome enough to worry about.

RichSchultz · Sep 8, 2019

garczar said:
I'm sure Jewett or Dr.Dave will chime in but i just don't see that changing the outcome enough to worry about.

Good point...Dr Dave, at one point during the China Open Final, Raga asked for the cue ball to be cleaned before a back cut shot. Seems it reduced the slide that normally occurs.

garczar · Sep 8, 2019

RichSchultz said:
Good point...Dr Dave, at one point during the China Open Final, Raga asked for the cue ball to be cleaned before a back cut shot. Seems it reduced the slide that normally occurs.

Both the slide and cb/ob contact could be affected. Static elec. is not going to be an issue but dirt/oil on balls will be for sure.

jimmyco · Sep 8, 2019

As long as the gloves are cotton and not silk, wool or poly, no charge should build.

pt109 · Sep 8, 2019

jimmyco said:
As long as the gloves are cotton and not silk, wool or poly, no charge should build.

That’s what we found out in Toronto in the 80s at a snooker tournament.
....and inordinate amount of skids (in snooker they’re called kicks) were happening...
...when the ref changed from nylon to cotton gloves...they stopped happening

logical · Sep 8, 2019

The question remains though...even if it does cause static, would it really do anything other than this maybe?

And wouldn't you know it, Dr. Dave has a paper out there on it.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw1Ub3quwMZVcbdSRQhluIbi

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pt109 · Sep 8, 2019

logical said:
The question remains though...even if it does cause static, would it really do anything other than this maybe?

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I think static can give you static cling....
...and who wants to miss by a hair?

logical · Sep 8, 2019

pt109 said:
I think static can give you static cling....
...and who wants to miss by a hair?

You grabbed my post while I was editing...in case anyone is interested, I added a link to a paper about this by our resident "explainer in chief".
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw1Ub3quwMZVcbdSRQhluIbi

Patrick Johnson · Sep 8, 2019

logical said:
Dr. Dave has a paper out there on it.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw1Ub3quwMZVcbdSRQhluIbi

logical said:
I added a link to a paper about this by our resident "explainer in chief".
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw1Ub3quwMZVcbdSRQhluIbi

Dr. Dave's conclusion: "static electricity definitely did not cause an increase in throw".

pj
chgo

pt109 · Sep 8, 2019

Patrick Johnson said:
Dr. Dave's conclusion: "static electricity definitely did not cause an increase in throw".

pj
chgo

I’m still not convinced that static is not a reason for some skids.
...I saved some info on my computer which I will post later in the day.

One day you, Bob, and the Doc will be saying...”We should have listened to that red neck
high school drop-out.....

dr_dave · Sep 8, 2019

RichSchultz said:
Ok, think this through with me.

When, in a pro tourney, a player needs to hit a shot with more grab on the felt for some reason, would it help if they ask a ref to clean the cue ball?

Think about static electricity...seems the rubbing would generate some static against the cloth?

Does this make sense?

Static electricity is not important in pool, IMO.

FYI, I address this topic in the later part of the page (and video) here:

cling/skid/kick resource page

Enjoy,
Dave

garczar · Sep 8, 2019

pt109 said:
I’m still not convinced that static is not a reason for some skids.
...I saved some info on my computer which I will post later in the day.

One day you, Bob, and the Doc will be saying...”We should have listened to that red neck
high school drop-out.....

Kinda doubt it. No offense but i gotta go with Dave's take. If he says SE is not a culprit that's good enough for me.

Patrick Johnson · Sep 8, 2019

pt109 said:
I’m still not convinced that static is not a reason for some skids.

Some even believe it has to do with the stroke...

pj
chgo

garczar · Sep 8, 2019

Patrick Johnson said:
Some even believe it has to do with the stroke...

pj
chgo

I heard if you combine that nodflection idiot's time-bending stroke with a healthy dose of swoop you can generate enough SE to make the balls spark.

ideologist · Sep 8, 2019

pt109 said:
That’s what we found out in Toronto in the 80s at a snooker tournament.
....and inordinate amount of skids (in snooker they’re called kicks) were happening...
...when the ref changed from nylon to cotton gloves...they stopped happening

Multiple factors could be possible:

Maybe the static in the gloves left an inordinate amount of dust on the balls

Maybe the balls being smaller are more effected by static than large pool balls

Maybe the nappy snooker cloth is more influential on kicks than slicker pool cloth, regarding static

Bob Jewett · Sep 8, 2019

RichSchultz said:
Ok, think this through with me.

When, in a pro tourney, a player needs to hit a shot with more grab on the felt for some reason, would it help if they ask a ref to clean the cue ball?

Think about static electricity...seems the rubbing would generate some static against the cloth?

Does this make sense?

In general a clean ball will slide more on the cloth than a dirty one.

As for the static idea, as shown on the resource video, static electricity itself does not cause skid. I think that a charged ball could tend to pick up more chalk from the table which could result in more bad contacts, but that's going to be pretty hard to demonstrate and it will require dirty cloth. You would have to be desperate to try to get unusual action that way in a game.

logical · Sep 8, 2019

ideologist said:
Multiple factors could be possible:

Maybe the static in the gloves left an inordinate amount of dust on the balls

Maybe the balls being smaller are more effected by static than large pool balls

Maybe the nappy snooker cloth is more influential on kicks than slicker pool cloth, regarding static

Maybe...

Most of what you say is not outlandish but in general are about the possible resulting dirtiness and not the static itself.

The lighter balls thing...well OK but they aren't dramatically lighter and the baseline for a pool ball appears to be basically none. Not sure what approx. 1.25 x "basically none" is.

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JazzyJeff87 · Sep 8, 2019

It’s 1.28..

logical · Sep 8, 2019

JazzyJeff87 said:
It’s 1.28..

2" or 2.07" ?

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Refs with Gloves—a science question

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