Spot on the wall kicking system?

Bob Jewett

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Nice (and accurate) description, Keeb... ... ...
The problem is that the cue ball does not hit at the indicated points. The second is in particular going to be off by quite a bit. All because the cushions are not really mirrors.

As an example, that graphic says that if you are at the side pocket and want to play a corner-5 to the pocket (standard 3-rail kick), you need to shoot into the corner pocket.
 
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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
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The problem is that the cue ball does not hit at the indicated points.
Yes, as usual the equal-angle path only exists as a reference - physics trumps geometry. But it does illustrate the "mirror" and "spot on the wall" concepts.

pj <- and I get to draw pictures
chgo
 

Scratch85

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lfigueroa

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Look for spots on the wall when your friendly “basement monster” asks you over to play some cheap sets. They will likely be the same color as his/her chalk. Might save you some calculating.


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums


There's an old story about a 3C player who had all these systems he'd use off of different spots on the wall on his pet table. He had a ton of them cold.

Another player challenged him to a match for some significant cheese. But the night before, the challenger sneaks into the pool hall and moves the table a foot one way and half a foot the other. They say it was brutal.

Lou Figueroa
 

Bob Jewett

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There's an old story about a 3C player who had all these systems he'd use off of different spots on the wall on his pet table. He had a ton of them cold.

Another player challenged him to a match for some significant cheese. But the night before, the challenger sneaks into the pool hall and moves the table a foot one way and half a foot the other. They say it was brutal.

Lou Figueroa
Which reminds me of the story at The Palace in San Francisco. The owner (if I do not misremember) Bob Bills was in a golf game on a 6x12 and had to kick at his ball by the side pocket. He carefully measured it out and placed his chalk at the exact point on the cushion he wanted to hit. As he was walking around to the other side to shoot, one of the other players poked the chalk with his cue stick and moved it over an inch or so. Bob shot at the chalk and made the ball nicely.

There was a chalk smudge on the wall of my long-time home room (Kip's) which was for a specific trick/proposition shot.
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
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After putting a little more thought into what I visualize, there's actually 13 contact points. My drawing is poor and probably looks more difficult than it really is. When you find center of contact point to center of your object ball standing up, that's the shot line. When your down aiming on that shot line, you can adjust half a tip on each side of that line depending which side of the object ball you want to hit. If you want to hit object ball center, then just stay on that original line. Hard to explain, but not very difficult.

Never saw a 13 month calendar before Ed....how neat
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Nice (and accurate) description, Keeb... here's a pic to go with it.

pj
chgo


thanks buddy......here be one a de tew dat go in de syde tree rail de udder geaux long fiyst

want to know something funny? Ive never marked SOTW physically on the wall , or a ball, not with a quata not even a glass a wata. I just use ma eyes lordy lordy dem eyes i gawt, cames wit a stick ruler. Dont let it fool ya, its true and be truer.



If i play in a place long enough ill find indiscriminate spots and they want to leart that so i tell em, me.

You go straight straight turn straight and you will see where they hung dat cat.

"i dont know where dat be mr. ghost"

THEN YOU DONT BELONG THERE TEE, go see donald duck and learnt you some maths:grin:
 

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greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Dont yall be stealing the grey ways, when they ask just say

the ghost in grey....he show me de way.

and if you say it in plain english the grey magic wont work no meaux.

And if i find it on a Tor vid ima bust him with my wooden spoon.

Will add meaux fo sho



for a better game,
-Greyghost
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
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Regardless of what "aiming method" you use, if you don't possess an accurate and repeatable stroke you'll have a more difficult time adjusting. :grin: All tables play a little different from one another. The player who can adjust more quickly to the table conditions will always have the advantage. Notice it took Dr Dave 4 tries to adjust to the 3 rail kick.
Scott,

I assume you are referring to the spot on the wall video I did with Tom Ross. FYI, Tom is doing all of the shooting in that video. And I can assure you that he doesn't need multiple attempts to nail any 1-, 2-, 3-, or 4-rail kick on that table. He was just demonstrating how to make adjustments to find the "benchmark shot" reference.

Regards,
Dave
 
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dr_dave

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Not required.

Here is how you can find a spot on the wall target for many kinds of banks and kicks....

First figure out the general nature of the shot and how you are going to play it. One example would be the standard 3-cushion kick (which could use the corner-5 system if you wanted to count) played with running follow, and another would be a bank shot to the side with a sliding (as opposed to rolling) object ball.

Also think about the range of ball positions over which you want the shot to work. You might want the 3-rail kick to work when coming from the side pocket or from the middle of the end rail. (Technically, those would be called the "shortest" and "longest" starting positions for that shot.)

Find the line the ball has to go along for a shot from one of the extreme positions. Mark that line with two coins on the rails. Find the line for a shot from the other extreme position. Mark that line with coins.

Place a real, physical target where those two lines cross, which is normally somewhere out in the room. In lessons, I use a camera tripod and a pool ball into which I have screwed a 1/4-20 screw that goes on a camera tripod mount foot. You could use a piece of chalk on a bar stool.

There is one precise place where those two lines cross at an exact distance from the table. There is only one point.

At this point you know that if you shoot a ball along either of the two original lines at that single spot, the ball will go to the required target. Now, try shooting the same shot from a startig point halfway between those two extremes. For example, you could shoot the 3-cushion kick from half a diamond up the long rail. You shoot at that same target out in the room where the two lines cross and where I would have put my ball on a tripod.

If the shot from the middle starting point does not go to the target, you set too large a range for the shot. Either you can narrow the range over which you expect that single spot on the wall to work, or you can try to modify the system in some way to force it to work. One example of forcing the shot to work is on the 3-cushion kick. As the shot gets shorter, use more side spin and jack up a little -- that might fix things.

A main point here is that spot-on-the-wall systems are easy to construct on your own for your own equipment and conditions.

Another very important point is that not just any point will do. It has to be at the right distance or it can't work well for all starting points. It almost certainly will not be on the wall.
For those interested in knowing where the ideal spot locations are for a table of any size and for kicks off 1, 2, or 3 rails, see the diagrams in the following article:

"VEPS GEMS - Part XIV: 'Spot-on-the-Wall' System" (BD, February, 2011).

Enjoy,
Dave
 

dr_dave

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https://youtu.be/rZONvoN0un4?t=3606
100:14 of the video for those watching on a device which doesn't start at the appropriate time.

I was watching Melling's match and noticed he was pulling off a few nice kicks. he appeared to be aiming at something away from the table and I remember a discussion about the "spot on the wall" system. I don't understand why you wouldn't just use the diamonds but it seems to work for Melling.

Just one of several examples during the match.
Based on how he is measuring along the rail, and based on how he is aligning his aim through diamonds, I think it is clear that he is using the Plus System. For those interested, this system is covered in detail in the videos and articles here:

Plus System for aiming 2- and 3-rail kicks off a short rail

Enjoy,
Dave
 
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