I Quit...

Thumbs Up

LOL...... good for you. Come back up to the Dallas area and visit me again. I'll give you a few games of 14.1

mnorwood said:

...playing 9 ball and 8 ball that is. Lately all I have been playing is 14.1. I finally found a regular sparring partner that prefers 14.1. We have been having some really good matches for the past few months. I just don't understand why the game isn't more popular among pool players. I am going to start hanging out more in this subforum.

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I'm kinda surprised. I've seen your video doing the "L" drill and figured you were an old 14.1 warhorse. Welcome to our world!

mnorwood said:

...playing 9 ball and 8 ball that is. Lately all I have been playing is 14.1. I finally found a regular sparring partner that prefers 14.1. We have been having some really good matches for the past few months. I just don't understand why the game isn't more popular among pool players. I am going to start hanging out more in this subforum.

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I think most players (especially those that "wager" on games) are looking for more instant results/gratification. A game of 14.1 can take 90-120 minutes to see the result. I, also, rarely play any other game than 14.1. Others dont seem to have the patience.

-Dennis

Thumbs Up

mnorwood said:

I was talking to my sparring partner today about you. I can't tell you how many times I have bragged about seeing your room. I will see what I can do about a trip.

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You both come out for a day or two. Take in a ball game.

14-1StraightMan said:

You both come out for a day or two. Take in a ball game.

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They play ball in Texas? And they even have a stadium to do it in?

-Sean <-- die-hard Yankees fan, grew up playing stick-ball in the streets in the Bronx

Lol....

sfleinen said:

They play ball in Texas? And they even have a stadium to do it in?

-Sean <-- die-hard Yankees fan, grew up playing stick-ball in the streets in the Bronx

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Now how did I know that there was going to be some type of wise joke comment even before I open this thread up when I seen that you posted a comment???.....LOL
Let's get this straight..... I'm a New Yorker first.
Big time Yankee Fan
Giant Fan
Knicks (when they were good)
NY Ranger Fan
We have the Tx. Rangers, Dallas Stars, Mavs & the Cow Girls (I mean Boys)all down here within 45 mins of driving.
The only team that I like are the Stars but with all that said. I do like Texas.
It's a good State that does a lot of things right. Plus...... we still have 16oz soda drinks down here.......LOL

mnorwood said:

...playing 9 ball and 8 ball that is. Lately all I have been playing is 14.1. I finally found a regular sparring partner that prefers 14.1. We have been having some really good matches for the past few months. I just don't understand why the game isn't more popular among pool players. I am going to start hanging out more in this subforum.

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It isn't more popular for a couple reasons. For pros and gamblers there isn't any money in 14.1 and for bangers the game is too difficult.

14-1StraightMan said:

Now how did I know that there was going to be some type of wise joke comment even before I open this thread up when I seen that you posted a comment???.....LOL
Let's get this straight..... I'm a New Yorker first.
Big time Yankee Fan
Giant Fan
Knicks (when they were good)
NY Ranger Fan
We have the Tx. Rangers, Dallas Stars, Mavs & the Cow Girls (I mean Boys)all down here within 45 mins of driving.
The only team that I like are the Stars but with all that said. I do like Texas.
It's a good State that does a lot of things right. Plus...... we still have 16oz soda drinks down here.......LOL

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(Quoting MacCauley Culkins from the movie "Home Alone")

"Yyyessssssssssssssss!!!" -- with the exaggerated fist pump

Yankin' Mikey's chain is fun!

Just funnin' with ya Mikey, you know that. I know you're originally (and deep in your heart, still are) a New Yorker. And so you know, some of my bestest and life-long friends are from Texas -- guys I served in the military with. We're all good, no matter where we're from. I firmly believe that. Doesn't mean I can't egg you about it, though.

-Sean

Big Thumbs Up....

sfleinen said:

(Quoting MacCauley Culkins from the movie "Home Alone")

"Yyyessssssssssssssss!!!" -- with the exaggerated fist pump

Yankin' Mikey's chain is fun!

Just funnin' with ya Mikey, you know that. I know you're originally (and deep in your heart, still are) a New Yorker. And so you know, some of my bestest and life-long friends are from Texas -- guys I served in the military with. We're all good, no matter where we're from. I firmly believe that. Doesn't mean I can't egg you about it, though.

-Sean

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I know that you are kidding.... never worry about me not knowing. We think a like. Well it looks like Mnorwood is coming up from Houston tomorrow to visit. I better get some practice in.

I discovered, like you, that once you get someone to play with who likes the game and wants to actually spar the right way (playing safes, taking scratches, not constantly obliterating break balls) the game is a heck of a lot of fun.

mnorwood said:

...playing 9 ball and 8 ball that is. Lately all I have been playing is 14.1. I finally found a regular sparring partner that prefers 14.1. We have been having some really good matches for the past few months. I just don't understand why the game isn't more popular among pool players. I am going to start hanging out more in this subforum.

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Straight Pool has been my favourite since I first got to know it (which was some time after playing bar table 8-Ball), and I've lately come to the same conclusion - that I should devote the little practice time I have exclusively to Straight Pool, just for the love of it, even if I don't have anyone to play it with, and barely half a dozen tourneys per year I could participate in. It seems like I'm constantly playing or preparing for something I like doing less than play Straight Pool. If anyone put me up and fed me for the rest of my life, I could just study the game and never see the light of day again - so unfortunate it's not more popular. Let me think: what's the next two tourneys I'm enrolled in this week alone - yeah, right, 9-Ball…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

what sometimes pisses me off that even during practice sessions with our club EVERYBODY just wants to play 9 ball.

my favorite game is 8 ball and i like to play straight pool sometimes, but except one of our senior players no1 wants to play.

its only 9ball 9ball 9ball.... and i hate this game so bad :frown: my concentration goes down and i go into "banger" mode, unlike in 8ball or straight pool

i think one of the things that may be -- unwittingly -- coming to our aid is 10 ball.

really, Really good 9 ball is fun to watch, even though i hate playing it. matches are quick, and momentum swings often, frequently based on spectacular shots. i don't play for money anymore, but did as a kid, and it was the most efficient gambling game. its simplicity and excitement of watching have made it 14.1's downfall.

as for 14.1, i could -- no, i Have -- spent entire days stacked end to end watching it, and of course, playing it is even more addictive; difficult to remember to stop and eat or sleep once in a while.

10 ball at the pro level, on the other hand, has to be the dullest use of table time ever invented. it, far more than 1 hole, is like watching paint dry. half of the match is watching someone try to get a tight rack, the other half is safes. so the fact that it is becoming the "serious" tournament game of choice for the pro's is actually, i think, very good for us.

in comparison, 14.1 looks Blazing!

i think some Numbers at challenge events might be good marketing. some people just get excited about measurable achievements, whether it's Mosconi's 526, Crane's 150 & out, or Strickland on a non-psychotic day running a 6-pack. in the case of a 14.1 challenge, they would also give an immediate visual sense of what the event's about, for people who wander by and don't know what's going on.

if Steve and Charlie can figure out how to do it, i'd put up some money for a honkin' big led display at SBE next year, showing the current high run(s).

wigglybridge said:

i think one of the things that may be -- unwittingly -- coming to our aid is 10 ball.

really, Really good 9 ball is fun to watch, even though i hate playing it. matches are quick, and momentum swings often, frequently based on spectacular shots. i don't play for money anymore, but did as a kid, and it was the most efficient gambling game. its simplicity and excitement of watching have made it 14.1's downfall.

as for 14.1, i could -- no, i Have -- spent entire days stacked end to end watching it, and of course, playing it is even more addictive; difficult to remember to stop and eat or sleep once in a while.

10 ball at the pro level, on the other hand, has to be the dullest use of table time ever invented. it, far more than 1 hole, is like watching paint dry. half of the match is watching someone try to get a tight rack, the other half is safes. so the fact that it is becoming the "serious" tournament game of choice for the pro's is actually, i think, very good for us.

in comparison, 14.1 looks Blazing!

i think some Numbers at challenge events might be good marketing. some people just get excited about measurable achievements, whether it's Mosconi's 526, Crane's 150 & out, or Strickland on a non-psychotic day running a 6-pack. in the case of a 14.1 challenge, they would also give an immediate visual sense of what the event's about, for people who wander by and don't know what's going on.

if Steve and Charlie can figure out how to do it, i'd put up some money for a honkin' big led display at SBE next year, showing the current high run(s).

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Ironically, I happen to find the safety duels in 10-Ball to be the most fascinating aspect of it, even if on the whole, I agree it's perhaps the most boring of all pool games to watch (although playing it is not so bad). The problem with Straight Pool is that it becomes more interesting both to watch and play as one is getting better at it, which usually takes more time, and certainly much more of a learning process. I actually remember that when I first watched top Straight Pool players, I almost nodded off as if there were nothing to see other than guys potting easy shots for hours. I pulled out an old VHS tape a few days ago that I had not watched in about twenty years, Colavita vs Martin at the 1989 U.S. Open, the one that Oliver Ortmann eventually came out on top in as the (back then) surprise winner - all I remembered about it was that I thought the match boring the only time I watched it. Now, after all these years playing and teaching the game, although it's still no gem of a Straight Pool match given who's competing, I'm seeing a wealth of fascinating detail, appreciating it so much I'm going to review the tape once I get to the bottom of the stack. Admittedly it may help that I can no longer claim the shots they miss are all that easy - being no spring chicken anymore myself, these twenty years have taught me the hard way that no shot, and trust me I mean none, is anywhere near foolproof…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

if i put aside my rhetoric and Think for a moment [!], i realize you're right, David: the safety play Is often the most interesting part of 10 ball.

that we can say that, though, is a pretty strong criticism in itself!

wigglybridge said:

if i put aside my rhetoric and Think for a moment [!], i realize you're right, David: the safety play Is often the most interesting part of 10 ball.

that we can say that, though, is a pretty strong criticism in itself!

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Bob (and David):

The attraction (and detraction) to 10-ball, is that is a COMMITMENT-oriented game. You either commit to a shot, or you commit to a safety. This is especially true in the WPA+ rules (notice the "+" -- which denotes an addition to the base/stock WPA rules). In WPA+ rules, which are getting more popular (i.e. more 10-ball tours are adopting WPA+ rules), a missed shot gives option to the incoming player (i.e. the opponent can make the player shoot again if the player doesn't like the resultant leave from the missed shot). It really punishes misses, and forces a player to commit to a shot, or commit a safety.

That's probably why 10-ball, although the pros love to play it because it greatly lessens luck, seems "boring" to watch by you, I, or others that are used to "excitement" offered in slop/luck games like 9-ball. Those that watch/spectate short-rack rotation games, want the same "action" they see in 9-ball. Only the upper echelon of pro players can offer that same excitement in 10-ball, e.g. SVB, Dennis Hatch, Mike Dechaine, etc. Everyone else seems to blend into the "gray" background of ho-hum 10-ball players.

As to 14.1, its biggest problem (in the past, not now, mind you) was that it didn't offer the same level of "what have you done for my excitement lately" short-attention-span / immediate-gratification expectations that 9-ball gave. However, with the continual controversies in 9-ball (e.g. soft break, wired wing balls, pattern racking, etc.) and the "band aids" that've continually had to be applied to the game, folks are looking for something else to watch.

14.1 is easy to understand, and when you get a fast-paced player at the table (e.g. Dave Daya), it's pretty spectacular to watch. Although the purists may disagree, I think 14.1 should be played with a shot clock. Not the same short shot clock that is used in short-rack rotation games, but long enough that it gives the player adequate time to re-think his/her plan and patterns on the fly if outcomes change, but short enough to prod them into action and not stand there deliberating for excruciating periods of time, holding up the show.

-Sean

i think you make some good points, Sean.

just to be clear on what *i* think though: the "slop" factor is actually one of the things i Detest about 9 ball. the only thing that makes 9 ball exciting to me is the pace of it compared to 10 ball. on the whole, i find myself in the rare position of agreeing with Earl Strickland, that the game has been ruined with changes over recent decades.

as for 10 ball, i have to disagree: one of the things that prompted me to post what i said was the experience of, in fact, watching a match between SVB and Alex just last night. it Should have been incredibly exciting. what iit Was, though, was tedious beyond bearing (i had actually tried to watch it 2x previously and literally fell asleep both times). 10 ball is just a boring game; just my opinion.

what rotation players should do is to fix 9 ball, which is just plain broken. it wouldn't be hard, and it might even become an interesting game. [!]

what we should do for straight pool is, i think, more complicated. i agree with the idea of a relatively long-fused shot clock -- there has been stalling to ridiculous lengths in recent tournaments -- but as you say, the game obviously is at its most beautiful when strategy can be thought out when needed. i remember one of the 14.1 tournaments that i've seen extensively in video, and alternate commentators were saying "the shot clock has ruined this" and "i think we've seen more 100's in this tournament than we would've without the shot clock". again: [!]

so... it's complicated!