Draw vs Follow Which is Harder to Execute

wwjdwithca · Mar 25, 2015

Am I the only one that finds heavy follow to affect my shots sigfinifcantly more than heavy draw?

I was researching how to improve my follow shot accuracy and found many articles saying to convert to follow instead fo usiing draw, so I'm like, what?

And when I say "heavy" I mean forcing the CB to travel 2 ft or more after impact. And when I say, "affect my shots" i mean causing me to miss potting the object ball as opposed to mild follow or draw.

hang-the-9 · Mar 25, 2015

wwjdwithca said:
Am I the only one that finds heavy follow to affect my shots sigfinifcantly more than heavy draw?

I was researching how to improve my follow shot accuracy and found many articles saying to convert to follow instead fo usiing draw, so I'm like, what?

And when I say "heavy" I mean forcing the CB to travel 2 ft or more after impact. And when I say, "affect my shots" i mean causing me to miss potting the object ball as opposed to mild follow or draw.

2 feet is not close to a heavy follow shot, although the "more" part is right, but a hard follow shot will go across a full 9 feet easily (after it hits a rail it's not really a follow shot anymore since it just rebounds off the rail with the increased speed of the follow hit). You can get 2 feet of travel on a long center ball shot.

There is only one way to get better at a shot, practice and possibly a lesson or two to have a good player watch what you do and correct you if needed.

You're very likely trying to overpower the shot and are moving your arm during the shot by clenching your muscles.

DallasHopps · Mar 25, 2015

I have more trouble with accuracy when trying to follow, but it's usually because I'm trying to hit too hard. Just like a draw shot, a well executed stroke at mid speed will move the cue ball more than you think. On my GC3, I see a shot that I need to hit with top to come back up the table and my brain automatically assumes I have to murder the ball to get there. It throws off my stroke, I miss, and the cue ball comes back up the table. When set up again and I concentrate on controlling the stroke and using less power, my shot making percentage goes way up and I get the follow I was after.

In short, focus on making good contact where you want on the cue ball and take the power down a bit.

wwjdwithca · Mar 25, 2015

DallasHopps said:
I have more trouble with accuracy when trying to follow, but it's usually because I'm trying to hit too hard. Just like a draw shot, a well executed stroke at mid speed will move the cue ball more than you think. On my GC3, I see a shot that I need to hit with top to come back up the table and my brain automatically assumes I have to murder the ball to get there. It throws off my stroke, I miss, and the cue ball comes back up the table. When set up again and I concentrate on controlling the stroke and using less power, my shot making percentage goes way up and I get the follow I was after.

In short, focus on making good contact where you want on the cue ball and take the power down a bit.

I'm wondering if its because my bridge needs to be improved for follow shots. My bridge on a draw is really solid, and I believe I might be striking the CB off from my desired point and cause the object to get thrown differently from my expectation. Did you find that to be true?

Baxter · Mar 25, 2015

I've always found follow shots, even force-follow, to be much easier than draw. If both draw or follow will get the job done, I'm following all day long.

bdorman · Mar 25, 2015

As other posters have offered: the harder you hit a shot, the less accurately you'll hit it. The same is true when hammering a nail and swinging a golf club. More Power = Less Accurate

What amazes me most about professional players is their ability to pocket the OB when using full power. Watch good amateurs play and you'll see that's when most shots are missed.

Like most amateurs, I usually use more speed than necessary with a follow shot (i.e. it's when I'll most often over-run position).

It's just a matter of practice and understanding that the fuller you hit the OB, the more power necessary to get distance from the CB.

tim913 · Mar 25, 2015

Much easier to control a follow shot that a draw shot...even a soft follow will roll the CB more than 2 feet...keep the cue as level as possible and just use a smooth follow through...a force follow will go two lengths of the table or more on a 9 footer...have an experienced player watch what you're doing

xianmacx · Mar 25, 2015

"Draw for show, follow for dough." or so they say.

tim913 · Mar 25, 2015

bdorman said:
As other posters have offered: the harder you hit a shot, the less accurately you'll hit it. The same is true when hammering a nail and swinging a golf club. More Power = Less Accurate

What amazes me most about professional players is their ability to pocket the OB when using full power. Watch good amateurs play and you'll see that's when most shots are missed.

Like most amateurs, I usually use more speed than necessary with a follow shot (i.e. it's when I'll most often over-run position).

It's just a matter of practice and understanding that the fuller you hit the OB, the more power necessary to get distance from the CB.

A lot of players I've seen will miss balls when they hit it harder because they also increase the speed of their backstroke. The backstroke should come back slowly whether you accelerate through the CB hard or soft.

Texdance · Mar 25, 2015

wwjdwithca said:
Am I the only one that finds heavy follow to affect my shots sigfinifcantly more than heavy draw?

I was researching how to improve my follow shot accuracy and found many articles saying to convert to follow instead fo usiing draw, so I'm like, what?

And when I say "heavy" I mean forcing the CB to travel 2 ft or more after impact. And when I say, "affect my shots" i mean causing me to miss potting the object ball as opposed to mild follow or draw.

Mark Wilson, in his book Play Great Pool, describes 'pro-level follow'. The objective is to hit high on the CB without scratching.

Use of drills with marking the spot where the cue tip contacts the CB will probably show either you are hitting much lower than you thought, or your contact point is inconsistant, or both.

You don't have to hit a million balls, a couple of thousand drill reps will get you started, even a couple of hundred might show improvement; but shooting only two or three practice shots is meaningless and unhelpful..

Chalk up for those off center hits, I've seen too many, even pros, fail to chalk up then miscue .

As for follow vs draw, you need both tools in order to play well, but follow position may come up more often and be a simpler method of moving the CB, especially at shorter distances. Making the CB to travel down the shot line of the next shot is good technique (as compared to having the CB moving across that shot line, which leaves less margin for error.

For a great bit of clear, concise training on this and other fundamentals, and at next to no cost, look up Tor Lowry's instructional vids.

macguy · Mar 25, 2015

wwjdwithca said:
Am I the only one that finds heavy follow to affect my shots sigfinifcantly more than heavy draw?

I was researching how to improve my follow shot accuracy and found many articles saying to convert to follow instead fo usiing draw, so I'm like, what?

And when I say "heavy" I mean forcing the CB to travel 2 ft or more after impact. And when I say, "affect my shots" i mean causing me to miss potting the object ball as opposed to mild follow or draw.

I would say draw. In fact most players when they want to cinch a shot will find themselves hitting the cueball low.

Aaron_S · Mar 25, 2015

wwjdwithca said:
I'm wondering if its because my bridge needs to be improved for follow shots. My bridge on a draw is really solid, and I believe I might be striking the CB off from my desired point and cause the object to get thrown differently from my expectation. Did you find that to be true?

This may be putting the cart before the horse, but I'd say it could be bridge related. I find that an open bridge works better for me for most follow shots, whereas I almost exclusively use a closed bridge for draw shots. For high speed maximum follow shots (as with forcing the ball around 3 rails or something), I will sometimes use a closed bridge, however. But following the ball 2' should be a slow to medium-slow speed shot.

The first thing I would do is try to find out if you are unintentionally hitting off-center on the cueball when you use follow. A good test might be to use a striped ball - align the stripe with the line of the shot, and see if the ball rotates left or right after you strike it. I know when the cueball is frozen to the rail, my primary focus is to ensure I am hitting the exact center of the cueball, as any deviation from center can easily cause the cueball to rotate just enough to cause a miss. If you see rotation in this test, you need to work on either: a) finding the center of the cueball (I'm not being a smartass here, as this is not nearly as easy as it sounds); b) straightening your stroke.

Best of luck,
Aaron

wwjdwithca · Mar 25, 2015

Thanks, I'll look those up.

eastcoast_chris · Mar 25, 2015

Do you play/can you play with an open bridge?

If so, use it for follow shots... make them much easier to stroke smoothly. For draw shots I'd say it is personal preference.

I exclusively play with an open bridge since I grew up playing snooker (and have fat fingers!)

Both draw and follow shots are about timing and not really power. Watch some snooker to really understand this. They can draw a shot on a dime with such as controlled and slow (compared to the distance the cue ball goes) stroke.

On a 9' table, try lining up a 10' shot corner to corner with the object ball in the dead center of the table. When you can pot the ball and draw the cue ball back into the corner and have them both drop at about the same time, then you know you are smoothly stroking a draw shot and not over powering it and losing accuracy.

SmoothStroke · Mar 25, 2015

wwjdwithca said:
Am I the only one that finds heavy follow to affect my shots sigfinifcantly more than heavy draw?

I was researching how to improve my follow shot accuracy and found many articles saying to convert to follow instead fo usiing draw, so I'm like, what?

And when I say "heavy" I mean forcing the CB to travel 2 ft or more after impact. And when I say, "affect my shots" i mean causing me to miss potting the object ball as opposed to mild follow or draw.

Neither is harder to execute, draw is harder to control the distance for many players. I honestly don't think they practice the stroke enough to be confident in their distance control.

2 ft is not heavy follow, I am not being a braggart so please don't take it as such. I can follow 2 table lengths and more, with a long, short or medium length bridge, I can do the same with draw, or move it 6 inches.
When I hit it the cue ball it hesitates, then grabs and takes off, just like a power draw .

Work on your stroke technique for all speeds, that's the name of the game.

If you want send me a message and I will give you a drill that will perfect your follow stroke.

If not that's ok,,, make sure you level out your cue on delivery, don't force the stroke, you don't want to be jacked up or elevated with your swing arm, that's for another day.

Sincerely: SS

wwjdwithca · Mar 25, 2015

Aaron_S said:
This may be putting the cart before the horse, but I'd say it could be bridge related. I find that an open bridge works better for me for most follow shots, whereas I almost exclusively use a closed bridge for draw shots. For high speed maximum follow shots (as with forcing the ball around 3 rails or something), I will sometimes use a closed bridge, however. But following the ball 2' should be a slow to medium-slow speed shot.

The first thing I would do is try to find out if you are unintentionally hitting off-center on the cueball when you use follow. A good test might be to use a striped ball - align the stripe with the line of the shot, and see if the ball rotates left or right after you strike it. I know when the cueball is frozen to the rail, my primary focus is to ensure I am hitting the exact center of the cueball, as any deviation from center can easily cause the cueball to rotate just enough to cause a miss. If you see rotation in this test, you need to work on either: a) finding the center of the cueball (I'm not being a smartass here, as this is not nearly as easy as it sounds); b) straightening your stroke.

Best of luck,
Aaron

The striped ball concept is a great idea, that will really show me if I'm striking the CB where I think I am. Thanks!

tjshaw02 · Mar 25, 2015

Baxter said:
I've always found follow shots, even force-follow, to be much easier than draw. If both draw or follow will get the job done, I'm following all day long.

Couldn't agree more, when I first started shooting I always was using draw. That has changed significantly as I get better.

ENGLISH! · Mar 25, 2015

It depends on what cue ball is being used relative to the object balls.

In a matched set, as it should be, one should be no more easy than the other.

But since drawing the ball is like some one mentioned for show & most want to do it, many rooms went to the red circle cue ball which is a bit lighter & bouncier than most ball sets, hence it is easier to draw & more difficult to follow. It takes a bit of a different technique to get it to follow as one would want.

Listen to SmoothStroke & send him that PM.

Good Luck & Best Wishes,
Rick

Tramp Steamer · Mar 25, 2015

Generally speaking, in my opinion, drawing the cue ball in order to obtain position can cause more problems than it solves. This is especially true when playing One Pocket.
Never-the-less, when using either follow, or draw, accuracy is always of prime importance. This means that forced-follow, or forced-draw, is seldom necessary.
If you want to impress the hell out of the chicks, however, learn to draw old whitey the length of the table. :smile:

RAMIII · Mar 25, 2015

I've heard this many times before

xianmacx said:
"Draw for show, follow for dough." or so they say.

I've heard this many times before and it's good guidance. During my lessons with Bert Kinister he would often explain that consistency with your draw shot is one of the most challenging skills to develop. He has a drill to draw the cue ball from one corner pocket into another on 9ft table, and it's a very challenging drill. He encourages his students to use hard follow rather than draw whenever possible. I use his guidance most of the time, but when I don't I often will shake my head and realize that I got slightly out of position with draw. Draw just tends to be slightly more inconsistent in its result than follow. Try drawing the cue ball to the same spot ten times versus a similar distance follow shot and you'll likely encounter that draw caused inconsistent cue ball return paths, while follow proved more controllable.

Draw vs Follow Which is Harder to Execute

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