behind the rack

I like the behind-the-rack break shot. It has a lot going for it, such as:

1) The balls spread uptable, so you tend to have fewer clusters after the break.

2) There's no dead scratch shot off the back of the rack, unlike the dead scratch into the corner off the side of the rack.

3) I find it easier to play position to these break shots. There are a lot of options for a key ball - nearly any ball near either corner pocket can serve as a key ball.

The big downside, for me, is that the shots are often played to a blind pocket. I don't like shooting powerful, important shots where I can't see the pocket. I have a tendency to rattle them.

nrhoades said:

I find it easier and more calming to play for break balls into the top of the rack. However, coming from behind the rack with an angle directly into it really cracks it open. I find it a lot harder to play for this position. Then again I haven't run two racks yet.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

When I took my lesson with Dallas West I asked him what he thought of various break shots. When we got to the behind the rack break he said he didn't care for it because it pushed too many balls up table. When I took my lesson with Ray Martin and we got to the behind the rack break shot he said it was his favorite because it had never failed to give him another shot.

YMMV.

Lou Figueroa

I'm far from a strong player so take this with a huge grain of salt.

IMHO, it is best to let the pattern of the balls determine the best break shot for each rack. Sometimes it is a classic break shot from the front side of the rack and sometimes it is a shot behind the rack. At other times, the best break shot can be any one of a variety of shots into side pockets. They all work, when done properly. Learn them all and get comfortable with them all.

Hopefully some of the better players will give their opinions on this topic and I can go and try to run 3 balls.

I love the "behind the rack break-shots".
If you re in the position so you can hit the last 2 balls of the last row, you can plan VERY sure which ball you will play as your next-and usually have 1-2 additional breakshots.

Just have a look at *Mastering Pool* from George Fels-nicely described there.


lg
Ingo

If I can, I like to let the patterns on the table determine what break shot to use. I have gotten to the point where if I have a good key ball and a good break ball, I want to protect the key ball as much as the break ball.

Also, if there are some break shots that you are uncomfortable with, begin starting all of your runs with that shot. If you shoot it over and over, you will start to learn how to hit it better--blind pocket or not.

Also, I used to not care much for side break shots as well. I has using a common rule of thumb on them:

1) If the cue ball is closer to the long rail than the object ball, then I would hit the shot with high english.

2) If the two balls were equal distance then I would use high-right english

3) If the cue ball was further from the long rail than the object ball, then I would use draw.

In this video, Mosconi breaks rule number one with good results. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRKw56oAA-E

I have since discarded these rules, and I hit almost every side break shot the way he does. In my view, his way is better. Maybe this will help you with the side break shots.

kollegedave

Behind-the-rack break shots are my favorite, too. I'd practiced the behind-the-rack break shot a lot, especially the one where you use inside english to pocket the object ball, glance off the back of the rack, and spin-out three rails to the center of the table.

While yes, it does push balls up table, it's pushing them into open space. You have less of the "balls colliding into each other" thing as when -- e.g. side-of-rack break shot -- you're pushing the balls around in an already-constrained area of the table (i.e. the foot of the table). I don't worry so much about shooting balls uptable or having them up there, because like the rest of us (most, but not all of us), we practice other games besides 14.1, and are used to having to deliver on what would be considered a "tester" or "risky" shot in 14.1.

I was really glad to read Lou's trip report from his lesson with Ray Martin, because it confirmed my already-held belief that behind-the-rack break shots almost never fail to give me another shot.

Interesting outcome of practicing that "inside-english-to-spin-out-3-rails-to-the-center-of-the-table" behind-the-rack break shot: when using this technique on standard side-of-rack break shots (but with a modification -- low-inside english on the cue ball instead of high-inside), the cue ball spins out to center of the table, rather than staying down there, possibly getting stuck to a cluster or to the pile. Yes, it does take some practice -- many find inside english a tough nut to crack -- but the result is worth it, IMHO.

Good thread,
-Sean

TSW said:

2) There's no dead scratch shot off the back of the rack, unlike the dead scratch into the corner off the side of the rack.

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There are definitely dead scratches from the back of the rack. If you place the CB in between the middle balls, you'll see the tangent goes right to the center of the pocket. Depending on the spin of the CB and the angle into the rack, there are many scratches from there. I guess what I'm saying is never think there's not a scratch somewhere-- you can scratch from anywhere.

Joe Tucker taught me that contact with the end 2 balls one should spin to the center 1 rail and the bottom 3 to go 3 rails. That's a fine little method and works well.

I also like behind the rack break shots. While it is true balls go up table a bit, it is also true that subsequent breaks of small clusters from the rack area have the benefit of a bit more room.

There are some possible scratches with behind the rack breaks that once you are aware of, are very simple to avoid.

One is when the CB is closer to the bottom cushion than the OB and in a position that allows you to contact the outer two balls in the rack with the CB. A touch of outside english is good to use here which brings the CB to the center of the table. However, over hitting this shot can result in a dead bee line for the opposite side pocket scratch.

Second, when the CB and OB are equal distance from the bottom rail, shooting the shot without enough inside english can result in a cross corner scratch.

Lastly, in situations where the CB and OB are equal distance from the short rail and contact with the rack will be with the two end balls closest to you, avoid draw, or you can scratch right under yourself in the corner pocket. ( On this shot I like shooting with a touch of a jack-up stroke and try to land the CB in the rack.

But over all, I like them also. :thumbup:

Also, you can scratch in the side pocket when using top-outside english (CB off the stack, forward into the side rail, & back across into the side pocket).

I like behind the stack breaks so long as the CB is not using the short rail before hitting the stack (that is to say, the OB is off the end rail & the CB is even with or below it).

mosconiac said:

Also, you can scratch in the side pocket when using top-outside english (CB off the stack, forward into the side rail, & back across into the side pocket).

I like behind the stack breaks so long as the CB is not using the short rail before hitting the stack (that is to say, the OB is off the end rail & the CB is even with or below it).

Click to expand...

I've done that quite a few times

mosconiac said:

Also, you can scratch in the side pocket when using top-outside english (CB off the stack, forward into the side rail, & back across into the side pocket).

I like behind the stack breaks so long as the CB is not using the short rail before hitting the stack (that is to say, the OB is off the end rail & the CB is even with or below it).

Click to expand...

LOL, yep, that was my number 1 way to scratch in my post. It's practically automatic.

SpiderWebComm said:

There are definitely dead scratches from the back of the rack. If you place the CB in between the middle balls, you'll see the tangent goes right to the center of the pocket. Depending on the spin of the CB and the angle into the rack, there are many scratches from there. I guess what I'm saying is never think there's not a scratch somewhere-- you can scratch from anywhere.

Joe Tucker taught me that contact with the end 2 balls one should spin to the center 1 rail and the bottom 3 to go 3 rails. That's a fine little method and works well.

Click to expand...

Of course Dave my friend,

but if you wanna learn 14.1 - then you should also invest the (in my opinion) necessary time to learn how to carom the rack, and what happens afterwards-and not only breaking with Mach3. The most intermediate or less skilled players are imitating the big guys-but they also know what happens by hitting the rack with Mach 3

And especially the *behind the rack* break-balls can teach you very much. To pay attention where the CB touches the rack, paying attention for the angle, is the angle negative or postive (cb to ob relation) etc. -

lg from overseas,

"prayer-mode-off"

have a smooth stroke Dave,

ingo