Best way to shoot this shot

Canadian cue · Mar 14, 2019

Object ball is frozen to the rail two diamonds from the pocket on the long rail. Cue ball is centre of table. What is the best way to get back up table from this position? Next ball is frozen to the end rail one diamond from the pocket opposite side of table then the other ball. I have been trying many ways at this shot and have not found a reliable shot.
Thanks for any advice
Cheers

michael4 · Mar 14, 2019

low outside, hard z shot, making sure not to scratch in the side pocket. IMHO

Masayoshi · Mar 14, 2019

Medium speed, lots of inside english,

Patrick Johnson · Mar 14, 2019

Canadian cue said:
Object ball is frozen to the rail two diamonds from the pocket on the long rail. Cue ball is centre of table. What is the best way to get back up table from this position? Next ball is frozen to the end rail one diamond from the pocket opposite side of table then the other ball. I have been trying many ways at this shot and have not found a reliable shot.
Thanks for any advice
Cheers

Sounds like a high spin, high speed shot - i.e., highly missable. I might look for "good enough" shape that's more reliable - like stun/draw across the table and back.

pj
chgo

Canadian cue · Mar 14, 2019

michael4 said:
low outside, hard z shot, making sure not to scratch in the side pocket. IMHO

This was the shot I chose during league night. I ended up going across coming off the rail and scratching in the side. This is what provoked me to practice the shot once I got home.

Canadian cue · Mar 14, 2019

Masayoshi said:
Medium speed, lots of inside english,

I tried practicing this shot for quite a while and I found that when you hit it just right it is a beautiful shot but if you hit the rail first not so much. I found this shot hard to do consistently.

Canadian cue · Mar 14, 2019

Patrick Johnson said:
Sounds like a high spin, high speed shot - i.e., highly missable. I might look for "good enough" shape that's more reliable - like stun/draw across the table and back.

pj
chgo

This is probably the safest shot

jay helfert · Mar 14, 2019

It's hard to draw past the side pocket on this shot (especially on a Diamond), unless you're a very good player. I like Patrick's answer. It makes more sense and with the next object ball only a diamond away from the corner pocket and on the rail it is very make able.

pt109 · Mar 14, 2019

Masayoshi said:
Medium speed, lots of inside english,

Canadian cue said:
I tried practicing this shot for quite a while and I found that when you hit it just right it is a beautiful shot but if you hit the rail first not so much. I found this shot hard to do consistently.

Worth practising....the difference between hitting rail-first and ball-first is very little...
....look for it by feel rather than aim.

Tough shot under heat...I assume the bank wasn’t on?

BrianaBrown13 · Mar 14, 2019

If the bank isn't on. Probably have to look for a safe, even if its just getting distance on opposite short rails. Also depends on what other balls are up, the game being played, the layout, what the score is, what the race is to. Might take a flyer depending on the situation.

Canadian cue · Mar 14, 2019

pt109 said:
Worth practising....the difference between hitting rail-first and ball-first is very little...
....look for it by feel rather than aim.

Tough shot under heat...I assume the bank wasn’t on?

Never considered the bank. I will try that.

Canadian cue · Mar 14, 2019

BrianaBrown13 said:
If the bank isn't on. Probably have to look for a safe, even if its just getting distance on opposite short rails. Also depends on what other balls are up, the game being played, the layout, what the score is, what the race is to. Might take a flyer depending on the situation.

In this particular game it was my last ball before the 8. He had all his balls still up so had to go for it.

bbb · Mar 15, 2019

rail first hit to come across and spin down

Zphix · Mar 15, 2019

Assuming I'm reading this correctly I would play it:

a) medium speed with inside English to come out 3 rails
b) low outside to play a Z-shot.
c) just a stun shot to make it and play the harder shot on the next ball.

2 diamonds away from the corner I'd probably play the z-shot, if the object ball gets closer to the pocket I play it with inside spin. If this is my 2nd to last ball before getting out I might just make the cut shot with a tad bit of low outside and just take the harder shot but EASIER position on the last ball.

Black-Balled · Mar 15, 2019

And something that isn't recognized by a lot of folks...the harder you hit the ball, the less the spin impacts the exit path of cb from the rail.

But I agree with jhatrick ponson: make the first ball and settle for something workable on ball 2

Island Drive · Mar 15, 2019

Playing conditions, cloth type and cue ball weight have a huge say in shot choice. There's no simple answer without all that info.

BC21 · Mar 15, 2019

I like these two options. Using top inside (left example) is easier to hit than using bottom inside (right example). I shoot both at a normal medium speed, probably a touch firmer when shooting the bottom inside, which is a great shot to know when the 3-rail option is blocked. This shot requires the cb to slightly hit the rail 1st, I mean barely rail first before hitting the ob.

If I were to shoot the Z shot with low outside (not shown), I'd stroke it medium soft and aim to hit the ob a little thick. But if you don't catch it thick enough that side pocket scratch bites hard. On a Diamond table I favor the 3-rail with top inside. On a slow barbox with shag felt I favor the Z shot with low outside.

BC21 · Mar 15, 2019

Black-Balled said:
And something that isn't recognized by a lot of folks...the harder you hit the ball, the less the spin impacts the exit path of cb from the rail.

But I agree with jhatrick ponson: make the first ball and settle for something workable on ball 2

Great point. Most spin shots work better with medium stroke, sometimes medium soft.

SmokinJoe46 · Mar 15, 2019

BC21 said:
I like these two options. Using top inside (left example) is easier to hit than using bottom inside (right example). I shoot both at a normal medium speed, probably a touch firmer when shooting the bottom inside, which is a great shot to know when the 3-rail option is blocked. This shot requires the cb to slightly hit the rail 1st, I mean barely rail first before hitting the ob.

If I were to shoot the Z shot with low outside (not shown), I'd stroke it medium soft and aim to hit the ob a little thick. But if you don't catch it thick enough that side pocket scratch bites hard. On a Diamond table I favor the 3-rail with top inside. On a slow barbox with shag felt I favor the Z shot with low outside.

Withe the ob frozen to rail, doesn't top inside 'pull' the ball CCW into the rail causing it to deflect?

BC21 · Mar 15, 2019

SmokinJoe46 said:
Withe the ob frozen to rail, doesn't top inside 'pull' the ball CCW into the rail causing it to deflect?

The inside spin and medium speed results in less CIT. The angle of the shot (45° or more), combined with maximum cb spin, results in less spin-induced throw also.

I just shoot it, and it works every time. Maybe I'm hitting ball and rail at about the same time, but I believe it's ball first by a hair or two. There's a certain feel to these shots. But I know if the cb hits rail first it'll come tighter around that right corner pocket, where it could scratch there or in the opposite side pocket on its way out of there.

Best way to shoot this shot

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