More 14.1

Steve Lipsky

On quest for perfect 14.1
Silver Member
With all the interest in 14.1 on the board lately, I figured I'd try to contribute. So here's some more tips and ideas I'd like to share. This might not be as well presented as some of my other threads on this (and threads by blackjack and sjm, in particular), because it's more just a collection of various ideas I want to convey.


1) Faced with a tough shot

CueTable Help



From this position, you simply must take two fouls by tapping the cueball. The beauty of it is that your opponent is doing the right thing by taking them right back. You are faced with a very, very difficult shot, with a make-percentage definitely under 50%. There is no safe.

You are essentially conceding to eventually taking the shot, but at least you've built in the equity that if you make it, you have an opponent on two fouls.

I am going from memory here, so I'm assuming that a make-percentage on something like this would be about 30%. If I'm wrong and upon setting it up on a real table it looks like my percentage would be significantly under that, I'd consider taking the third foul. But with chances of around 30%, taking the third foul is a little too conservative for me, especially with the added equity of having an opponent on two if I were to make it.

If your opponent elects to shoot this, well, tell him to have at it. You've gotten your opponent to shoot a shot he's going to miss more than half the time. Nothing wrong with that. This is why it's right for him to pass the shot back to you. Even when faced with a dire situation, you can make the best of it with this strategy.

This is an especially useful play when you have just run a bunch of balls. Your opponent has been getting cold in his chair; there's no way he's getting up and making this. He'll give you the two fouls in a heartbeat.

2) Sculpting the table

CueTable Help



In this situation, you want to shoot the 10 and then the 15. But look at that 3 ball. It could be used as a key ball for your eventual break shot on the 13, but it has to be moved. Shooting the 10 and going off the rail with some low right should do it perfectly. And with the 15 right there, there are no worries of not having another shot. You should be able to get the 3 to somewhere around the "A" on a very consistent basis.

When I see my opponent do something like this, I know he can play. I know he is shooting and moving balls with a purpose.

3) Secondary break shot, choosing a side

CueTable Help



You're in a great spot here, position on the 9 so you can get to the 6 on either side to break the little mini-cluster by the rack area.

Which side is best? A or B? Because of the arrangement of the cluster, you want to be at B. There are two huge reasons that B is the clear choice here. The first is situational; the tangent of the 7 off the 8 means that when you split the 7/4, the 7 is going to roll naturally off the 8 and give you a shot at it in the same corner you just made the 6. The second reason is more of a general rule, and it's that when making a soft secondary break shot, you don't want to hit the cluster full. If you elected to shoot the 6 from A, you will hit the 7 totally full. You may end up frozen on it, and even if not, you are pushing the 8 and the 4 uptable.

Breaking a cluster where you are splitting a couple of balls like this is an overwhelmingly better choice in almost all situations than one in which you have to hit the first ball full.

I don't know how helpful this one will be to intermediate-level players and above, but if you are a beginner and initially couldn't decide which side was better, study this diagram. You have to be able to look at a situation like this and know which side is better.

4) Look for balls that won't figure into any end-pattern, won't be used to break anything, aren't necessarily huge problem balls, AND let you pocket them now without sacrificing the position at all.

CueTable Help



In this situation, you have a number of shots. In my opinion, the clear winner is the 11 up in the corner. It opens the position nicely without sacrificing anything; you'll pretty much have exactly the same shots after you make it as you did before you shot it. But you've removed another ball, a ball which doesn't belong in any end pattern. In effect, it's a free chance to remove a ball without having to rethink anything.

5) Look for balls that open the position

CueTable Help



Again, a multitide of shots from which to choose. But look at that luscious four ball. If you don't take your time through the mid-rack, you can overlook a ball like this. But examine how the position completely opens upon making it. You could play the 4 to the 2 to the 5, and from there, it's difficult not to get out of the rack. You've opened everything.

6) Sculpting a rack - advanced

CueTable Help



OK, you have some problems here. The important thing to notice here is that you can't comfortably use the 8 as an insurance ball when you break the 10/15, because you'll be on the wrong side of the 8 to use it to get to the 13. And that 8 must be used in conjunction with the 13. So how to get an insurance ball on that cluster?

Look at the 11 and the 5. You have an angle to make the 11 in the side and move the 5 all the way down table (hitting rails at A and B). This will also leave you a good angle on the 7 to break the 10/15 (probably having to go off the end rail first). But now you've manufactured an insurance ball to go with it, so that you don't have to use the 8 as the insurance ball. You can now keep the 8 for use with the 13 later.

This may seem like an overly complicated example, and in many ways it is. But its intent, of course, isn't to show you what to do if this exact situation arises. Its intent is to spur you to think of creative solutions to problems you face, and to look at the table as a whole.

7) A simple no-no

CueTable Help



This example is only to show the 13 and the 5. These balls are problems, though they don't look it. I learned this one from Danny Barouty a long time ago and I've never forgotten it. You don't want to get towards the end rack with two balls aimed into the same side pocket like this. Since you won't want to play these combinations (the first ball is likely to end on a rail somewhere), you have to get rid of one of the balls from each side before the end rack. But since good 14.1 play dictates often getting to the center of the rack area, you'll find yourself unable or unwilling to play any of these four balls over and over. MAKE A PLAN to remove these balls during the midrack, or even earlier; do not simply wait for an opportunity to arise just because they look like such hangers. I have seen a lot of runs end by this one mistake.

OK, that's it for now. Hope this helps some of you.

- Steve
 
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Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for the typically informative post. I wonder if you'd look at the following situation and comment on it:

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AVqn3BbHo3MNao@

The 1 and 2 balls are either/or examples (they are not both on the table at the same time). What is your feeling, in general, about leaving the 1 ball for a key ball? How about leaving the 2 (intentionally) for a key ball? Say the 2 is within an inch of the rail.

I know you've written about these balls in the past, but want to doublecheck if I read you right.

thanks,
dan white
 

Steve Lipsky

On quest for perfect 14.1
Silver Member
qstroker said:
Thanks for the typically informative post. I wonder if you'd look at the following situation and comment on it:

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AVqn3BbHo3MNao@

The 1 and 2 balls are either/or examples (they are not both on the table at the same time). What is your feeling, in general, about leaving the 1 ball for a key ball? How about leaving the 2 (intentionally) for a key ball? Say the 2 is within an inch of the rail.

I know you've written about these balls in the past, but want to doublecheck if I read you right.

thanks,
dan white

Hi Dan. Good to hear from you! In my opinion, the 1 is the much better choice for a key ball here. The easiest way to explain it is that a pool player's arsenal is expanded greatly when he can manipulate things before getting to the first rail. A little too much angle, you can use a kill draw, for example. With a key ball so close to the rail (like the 2), you have very little manueverability other than the angle you left yourself on it. If you're not just right on it, you're hitting the rail so quickly after contact that you can't do much to change a natural path.

- Steve
 

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Steve Lipsky said:
With all the interest in 14.1 on the board lately, I figured I'd try to contribute. So here's some more tips and ideas I'd like to share. This might not be as well presented as some of my other threads on this (and threads by blackjack and sjm, in particular), because it's more just a collection of various ideas I want to convey.

First I'd like to apologize because I don't know how to insert the new wei table into a post. If someone would kindly tell me, I'll edit this post. The WEI tags in AZ seem to only work with the old table, which isn't exporting the 9-ball properly no matter what I do. Sorry.

1) Faced with a tough shot

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AKGU4BCYH3...HAUH4ICrh3JFrl4KDvW3LBrW3MEdV4NKAA3OWjI3PBis@

From this position, you simply must take two fouls by tapping the cueball. The beauty of it is that your opponent is doing the right thing by taking them right back. You are faced with a very, very difficult shot, with a make-percentage definitely under 50%. There is no safe.

You are essentially conceding to eventually taking the shot, but at least you've built in the equity that if you make it, you have an opponent on two fouls.

I am going from memory here, so I'm assuming that a make-percentage on something like this would be about 30%. If I'm wrong and upon setting it up on a real table it looks like my percentage would be significantly under that, I'd consider taking the third foul. But with chances of around 30%, taking the third foul is a little too conservative for me, especially with the added equity of having an opponent on two if I were to make it.

If your opponent elects to shoot this, well, tell him to have at it. You've gotten your opponent to shoot a shot he's going to miss more than half the time. Nothing wrong with that. This is why it's right for him to pass the shot back to you. Even when faced with a dire situation, you can make the best of it with this strategy.

This is an especially useful play when you have just run a bunch of balls. Your opponent has been getting cold in his chair; there's no way he's getting up and making this. He'll give you the two fouls in a heartbeat.

2) Sculpting the table

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AKGU4BCYH3...3JUkq4KDvW4LJIv3MNao4NKAA3OasA3PNYV3qUpPA&ZZ@

In this situation, you want to shoot the 10 and then the 15. But look at that 3 ball. It could be used as a key ball for your eventual break shot on the 13, but it has to be moved. Shooting the 10 and going off the rail with some low right should do it perfectly. And with the 15 right there, there are no worries of not having another shot. You should be able to get the 3 to somewhere around the "A" on a very consistent basis.

When I see my opponent do something like this, I know he can play. I know he is shooting and moving balls with a purpose.

3) Secondary break shot, choosing a side

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AKGU4BCYH3...W4LJIv3MNao4NKAA3OasA3PIvT3qKJkA&ZZ4rHPdB&ZZ@

You're in a great spot here, position on the 9 so you can get to the 6 on either side to break the little mini-cluster by the rack area.

Which side is best? A or B? Because of the arrangement of the cluster, you want to be at B. There are two huge reasons that B is the clear choice here. The first is situational; the tangent of the 7 off the 8 means that when you split the 7/4, the 7 is going to roll naturally off the 8 and give you a shot at it in the same corner you just made the 6. The second reason is more of a general rule, and it's that when making a soft secondary break shot, you don't want to hit the cluster full. If you elected to shoot the 6 from A, you will hit the 7 totally full. You may end up frozen on it, and even if not, you are pushing the 8 and the 4 uptable.

Breaking a cluster where you are splitting a couple of balls like this is an overwhelmingly better choice in almost all situations than one in which you have to hit the first ball full.

I don't know how helpful this one will be to intermediate-level players and above, but if you are a beginner and initially couldn't decide which side was better, study this diagram. You have to be able to look at a situation like this and know which side is better.

4) Look for balls that won't figure into any end-pattern, won't be used to break anything, aren't necessarily huge problem balls, AND let you pocket them now without sacrificing the position at all.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AasS4BCYH2...W4LCnp3MNao4NKxN3OasA4PFLR3qKJkA&ZZ4rHPdB&ZZ@

In this situation, you have a number of shots. In my opinion, the clear winner is the 11 up in the corner. It opens the position nicely without sacrificing anything; you'll pretty much have exactly the same shots after you make it as you did before you shot it. But you've removed another ball, a ball which doesn't belong in any end pattern. In effect, it's a free chance to remove a ball without having to rethink anything.

5) Look for balls that open the position

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AasS4BCpO2...D4LCnp3MNao4NKxN3OasA4PCYp3qKJkA&ZZ4rHPdB&ZZ@

Again, a multitide of shots from which to choose. But look at that luscious four ball. If you don't take your time through the mid-rack, you can overlook a ball like this. But examine how the position completely opens upon making it. You could play the 4 to the 2 to the 5, and from there, it's difficult not to get out of the rack. You've opened everything.

6) Sculpting a rack - advanced

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BITm3CAUT3...J3KLMA3LFrN4MbFJ2ObHs3PIbr1qbIdA&ZZ1rMGYB&ZZ@

OK, you have some problems here. The important thing to notice here is that you can't comfortably use the 8 as an insurance ball when you break the 10/15, because you'll be on the wrong side of the 8 to use it to get to the 13. And that 8 must be used in conjunction with the 13. So how to get an insurance ball on that cluster?

Look at the 11 and the 5. You have an angle to make the 11 in the side and move the 5 all the way down table (hitting rails at A and B). This will also leave you a good angle on the 7 to break the 10/15 (probably having to go off the end rail first). But now you've manufactured an insurance ball to go with it, so that you don't have to use the 8 as the insurance ball. You can now keep the 8 for use with the 13 later.

This may seem like an overly complicated example, and in many ways it is. But its intent, of course, isn't to show you what to do if this exact situation arises. Its intent is to spur you to think of creative solutions to problems you face, and to look at the table as a whole.

7) A simple no-no

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BITm3CAUT3...a3KPEa3LFrN4MRvo2OQja3PIbr1qbIdA&ZZ1rMGYB&ZZ@

This example is only to show the 13 and the 5. These balls are problems, though they don't look it. I learned this one from Danny Barouty a long time ago and I've never forgotten it. You don't want to get towards the end rack with two balls aimed into the same side pocket like this. Since you won't want to play these combinations (the first ball is likely to end on a rail somewhere), you have to get rid of one of the balls from each side before the end rack. But since good 14.1 play dictates often getting to the center of the rack area, you'll find yourself unable or unwilling to play any of these four balls over and over. MAKE A PLAN to remove these balls during the midrack, or even earlier; do not simply wait for an opportunity to arise just because they look like such hangers. I have seen a lot of runs end by this one mistake.

OK, that's it for now. Hope this helps some of you.

- Steve


I really don't know where to begin. Sculpting the table, the hangers near the side and how to break clusters... I wanna leave work RIGHT NOW and go play! I'm serious. I think I'm coming down with a cold or something right now. I feel a sneeze coming. Aw, man it's bad. I gotta go.
 

Vinman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks!

Thank you Steve! This is great information and we appreciate the time it must have taken you to pull it all together.
 

Williebetmore

Member, .25% Club
Silver Member
Steve Lipsky said:
4) Look for balls that won't figure into any end-pattern, won't be used to break anything, aren't necessarily huge problem balls, AND let you pocket them now without sacrificing the position at all.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AasS4BCYH2...W4LCnp3MNao4NKxN3OasA4PFLR3qKJkA&ZZ4rHPdB&ZZ@

In this situation, you have a number of shots. In my opinion, the clear winner is the 11 up in the corner. - Steve

Steve,
Very enjoyable thread.

My question is on the "11 in the corner " shot. It definitely seems the clear winner if it is straight in. If there was a little angle to it, would you still shoot it? Jim Rempe advises to pass them up if there is a little angle to them (though he seems tempted on several occasions during his "How to Run 100" tape).

I have been passing up such shots if they have a slight angle (unless they just HAVE to be shot), and taking them if they are straight in. Should I be taking them if they are angled (they just seem a bit more "missable")?

I have never asked this question of any of the world-beater's I have played; I hope all the straight pool guru's will feel free to render their opinion - this is a very common situation.
 

Steve Lipsky

On quest for perfect 14.1
Silver Member
Williebetmore said:
Steve,
Very enjoyable thread.

My question is on the "11 in the corner " shot. It definitely seems the clear winner if it is straight in. If there was a little angle to it, would you still shoot it? Jim Rempe advises to pass them up if there is a little angle to them (though he seems tempted on several occasions during his "How to Run 100" tape).

I have been passing up such shots if they have a slight angle (unless they just HAVE to be shot), and taking them if they are straight in. Should I be taking them if they are angled (they just seem a bit more "missable")?

I have never asked this question of any of the world-beater's I have played; I hope all the straight pool guru's will feel free to render their opinion - this is a very common situation.

Hey Willie. My quick answer would be to say that as soon as they become slightly missable, they must be considered exactly as any other ball on the table. That is, if the benefits of shooting it right now outweigh the risks of missing it, then you should still shoot it. But note that is exactly the same mindset I will have when choosing ANY ball to shoot.

The reason I wanted to put a spotlight on a straight-in (technically unmissable lol) shot like this was to demonstrate the benefits of the so-called "free" ball. You get to shoot it, you can't miss it, and it does nothing negative for you position-wise.

- Steve
 

grc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Steve Lipsky said:
1) Faced with a tough shot

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AKGU4BCYH3...HAUH4ICrh3JFrl4KDvW3LBrW3MEdV4NKAA3OWjI3PBis@

From this position, you simply must take two fouls by tapping the cueball. The beauty of it is that your opponent is doing the right thing by taking them right back. You are faced with a very, very difficult shot, with a make-percentage definitely under 50%. There is no safe.

You are essentially conceding to eventually taking the shot, but at least you've built in the equity that if you make it, you have an opponent on two fouls.

I am going from memory here, so I'm assuming that a make-percentage on something like this would be about 30%. If I'm wrong and upon setting it up on a real table it looks like my percentage would be significantly under that, I'd consider taking the third foul. But with chances of around 30%, taking the third foul is a little too conservative for me, especially with the added equity of having an opponent on two if I were to make it.

If your opponent elects to shoot this, well, tell him to have at it. You've gotten your opponent to shoot a shot he's going to miss more than half the time. Nothing wrong with that. This is why it's right for him to pass the shot back to you. Even when faced with a dire situation, you can make the best of it with this strategy.

This is an especially useful play when you have just run a bunch of balls. Your opponent has been getting cold in his chair; there's no way he's getting up and making this. He'll give you the two fouls in a heartbeat.

I am by no means a 14.1 expert, but in regards to this shot, could a safety like this be somewhat possible?:

asdf.jpg


Kind of leaves you at the same spot without having to foul.
Maybe too low percentage yet I'd thought I throw it out there.

Anyway, awesome post. Keep em coming!
 

Steve Lipsky

On quest for perfect 14.1
Silver Member
grc said:
I am by no means a 14.1 expert, but in regards to this shot, could a safety like this be somewhat possible?:

asdf.jpg


Kind of leaves you at the same spot without having to foul.
Maybe too low percentage yet I'd thought I throw it out there.

Anyway, awesome post. Keep em coming!

Thanks GRC... as to your diagram, that might work if there was a fair degree of space between the cueball and the ball you are playing safe against. However, with just a little bit of space, it would require a tremendous hit to not foul AND keep the cueball in the same position for your incoming opponent. And with no space (balls frozen), you won't foul, but you have no hope of keeping the cueball in place once you make the hit.

Try it out... I could be wrong, but I think you'll find it very difficult.
 

VKJ

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This thread is simply sensational. Thank you Steve!

I own every book on straight pool that I could find and I have always been amazed that while they offer a lot of information they all lack discussing and explaining these important situations. Most will walk you thru a few racks but never really get into this stuff.

This presentation is a 14.1 lovers dream and very important!
 

Travis Bickle

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks much for those guidelines and examples, Steve. Though I've dipped a fair amount into Capelle's book on the subject and am not completely clueless on how you're supposed to play 14.1, I usually am gripped by paralysis on the rare occasions I get sucked into a game!

These sorts of guides and general rules really help me eliminate at least a few of the brain-dead choices I'm inclined to sweat over when I look at the table.:D
 

Steve Lipsky

On quest for perfect 14.1
Silver Member
Travis Bickle said:
Thanks much for those guidelines and examples, Steve. Though I've dipped a fair amount into Capelle's book on the subject and am not completely clueless on how you're supposed to play 14.1, I usually am gripped by paralysis on the rare occasions I get sucked into a game!

These sorts of guides and general rules really help me eliminate at least a few of the brain-dead choices I'm inclined to sweat over when I look at the table.:D

Thanks for all the replies everyone. They mean a lot to me. I always tell myself I will try writing a book or doing a video one of these days... these replies tell me it might actually be well-received :p .

Anyway, thanks again...

- Steve
 
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Hierovision

Dios mio, man.
Silver Member
Dibs on the first copy. DIBS!!! For players like me I think it helps the most. Up-and-coming but with a great mind for the game, I'm a sponge for stuff like this. Thank you!
 

Vahmurka

...and I get all da rolls
Silver Member
Thanks Steve! By occasion I'm planning to do deeper investigations in the world of 14.1 continuous, and posts like these appearing recently are very valuable for me, and for many others around. Could be great to read your book or watch a tape :)
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Steve Lipsky said:
Hi Dan. Good to hear from you! In my opinion, the 1 is the much better choice for a key ball here.

Thanks, Steve. Let me ask you this, though. Do you LIKE the 1 as a key ball? Would you leave this ball in place early on in the rack and look for a set up ball to leave you good on the 1. For that matter, if you have a set up ball that leaves you in perfect stop shot position for the 2, would you then consider the 2 a good key ball?

I ask this because I often use a key ball like the 1, or even 1 and 2 in tandem. I just wonder whether I'm missing something because it does seem to work out pretty well.

thanks,
dan white
 

Jimmy M.

Insomniac
Silver Member
qstroker said:
Thanks for the typically informative post. I wonder if you'd look at the following situation and comment on it:

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AVqn3BbHo3MNao@

The 1 and 2 balls are either/or examples (they are not both on the table at the same time). What is your feeling, in general, about leaving the 1 ball for a key ball? How about leaving the 2 (intentionally) for a key ball? Say the 2 is within an inch of the rail.

I know you've written about these balls in the past, but want to doublecheck if I read you right.

thanks,
dan white

Just to chime in with my feeble straight-pool skills, adding the following ball may change things. http://cuetable.com/P/?@3AVqn3BbHo2IXbA3MNao@

While the 13 is the most ideal break ball, with the new layout, you may choose to shoot the 13 first then play position on the 9 because the 1 does work as a break ball and, now, the balls are lying perfect to get on it. The point I'm trying to make here isn't necessarily for this particular layout (You may still shoot the 9 first, then the 2-1 - of course, this all depends on where the cue ball is), but that the most ideal break ball isn't always the best one to try to get to. Often times you'll see a pattern that just leads perfectly to another, less ideal, break ball. I've seen quite a few runs, including some of my own, end early because the player gets focused on a particular break ball and tries to play a pattern around that break ball when, perhaps, a much simpler pattern existed that led to a less ideal, but workable, break ball.
 

Steve Lipsky

On quest for perfect 14.1
Silver Member
qstroker said:
Thanks, Steve. Let me ask you this, though. Do you LIKE the 1 as a key ball? Would you leave this ball in place early on in the rack and look for a set up ball to leave you good on the 1. For that matter, if you have a set up ball that leaves you in perfect stop shot position for the 2, would you then consider the 2 a good key ball?

I ask this because I often use a key ball like the 1, or even 1 and 2 in tandem. I just wonder whether I'm missing something because it does seem to work out pretty well.

thanks,
dan white

I feel like I'm in heaven in this forum. Way to go Blackjack!

Dan, I mean, if it's working for you, then that's great. Using the 1 and 2 in tandem, in my opinion, is infinitely better than just the 2. You'll have a lot of options when down to these last two key balls as to which one to play first so as to optimize your break position.

Yes, a set-up ball (blackjack's term, which I like very much, for the ball before the key) by the side pocket increases the equity of the 2. I dislike the 2 by itself so much that I won't even consider it unless I have a set-up ball by the side pocket for it. Of course, if you have no choice, you have no choice.

Let me leave you with this, though, if you do plan to leave the 2 (no matter how you plan to get on it): stop what you're doing and envision the exact spot you want your cueball for position on this ball. I find that with balls on the rail (or very close), my "mind's eye" for position on this type of key ball can often be off by as much as, say, two full ball-widths. So I no longer trust myself positioning for these balls without actually going over to that part of the table and getting it right.

- Steve
 
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