BCA -- On the Road to Nowhere

JAM · Mar 25, 2011

Bravo to Billiards Digest and Mike Panozzo for writing an excellent article about the state of pool in North America and how the BCA is handling it.

I think Mike Panozzo *gets it.* I have not been a fan of much of the billiard fourth estate due to their prejudicial reporting over the years, but, by George, Billiards Digest is telling it like it is, with no fear of any repercussions from the almighty Oz -- I mean BCA. :grin-square:

According to the article, here's a snippet of the current BCA logic:

Smaller board. Smaller offices. Smaller minds.

The board’s mindset these days seems to be, “We have $700,000 in the bank. If we don’t spend a dime outside the trade show, which currently is the BCA’s sole revenue producer, we can sustain the association longer.”

Then there's this little nugget:

Which brings me to BankShot Entertainment. Last year the BCA, realizing it could no longer rely solely on the trade show, engaged the help of Strike Ten Entertainment to create a meaningful benefits program for billiard rooms, while at the same time developing a revenue stream for the BCA. That was BankShot Entertainment. Through STE, the BCA gained national partnerships with Coca-Cola, First Data merchant services and Sysco food services. It was a big-picture idea — increasing room memberships, re-connecting with players, attracting outside-industry business partners, adding bodies and relevance to the Expo — that addressed the association’s mission...and future.

The BCA says it spent $240,000 on BankShot in 2010, and, quite frankly, the results were miserable. I know, because I was part of the BSE effort. The rollout took too long. Expectations were unreasonably high. The cost was high.

Here's the link: BD article about BCA by Mike Panozzo, April 2011. [Retrieved 25 March 2011]

The UPA was removed from representing American male pros when they failed. Well, now it's time to say bye-bye to the BCA, IMHO. This is the same BCA that sent Germany's Thorsten Hohmann to the recent WPA-sanctioned tournament overseas. Who is behind the curtain at the BCA making these kinds of decisions?

American pool needs a transparent industry organization, not this kind of activity where decisions are made in secret.

Bravo to Billiards Digest for speaking the truth. I am renewing my subscription to BD today.

Njhustler1 · Mar 25, 2011

the big pool magazines operate using a pay-to-play dynamic. if you buy advertising space, they'll write a friendly article about your business. this is pretty much the complete opposite of basic journalism ethics!!!! this also explains why there's practically never any articles criticising anything in the pool world (although we all know there's plenty of problems). just filler articles that wrote good things about advertisers.

its about time one of the magazines grew some cohones and did some responsible editorial work. muchos kudos to them.

cardiac kid · Mar 25, 2011

Jen,

If Smorg is number one in our hearts, you must be number two!!! Never seem to be able to give you "green". For the fools who don't know or respect you and your knowledge of the game of pool, it is posts like this that make you AZ's resident muse.

Lyn

Njhustler1 · Mar 25, 2011

what am i...chopped liver? :shrug:

just kidding. i'm riding coattails here.

Island Drive · Mar 25, 2011

I like your thread title

Good job, here is my thoughts copy/paste from another post where Jerry F. and Jay H. are going at it lightly'

Jerry Forsyth said:
Jay,

"With all due respect?" Where the hell did that come from? Every time we see each other we slap one another upside the head, man!

In normal times I would agree with your thesis. But businesses are not in a mood at the moment to deficit spend, and that is what the BCA would have to do to hold the Open again at this moment. Plus, they really need to analyze whether a tournament is the best vehicle to use to promote the game. They may have more viable options.

Deficit spending is what just clobbered the democrats last Tuesday. I do not see the BCA taking that route in the current environment. All this said, of course, with all due respect.

Its easy to say because of this and that its not a good time to spend, but a smart business person is very aware that most everything NOW can be purchased for 30-40 cents on the dollar and people are business people are very willing to NEGOTIATE.
When DuCoff left the BCA, the coffers were flush, rightfully so, the mfg sold off their assets on the player side and focused on the mfg side.
BCA trade show got relocated, only in time to find out the wheel wasn't broken and they better go back to where that had success, Vegas. That cost em. They next went with a large marketing firm out of GA, that was another expense that didn't pan out. Next, downsize, move to Denver, cut costs, oh yeah, continue to not support the play side unless your trying to sell another tip tool, right.
Ironically....NOW its even MORE important to support the game which in turn supports the industry.
The BCA got to where it was by supporting the play side and business at the same time, why are they trying to reinvent the wheel? The play side along with many smart business decisions is what got the BCA into a successful position. The BCA had about 1.2 million in the bank when it moved to CO, anyone know how much money is left in the bank?
What I find also out of place, Simonis is very successful, Ivan Lee is the BCA President, do homeowners really care about 860, 760 or 1240am?
Ivan, take the Bull by the horns if you REALLY want to accomplish more than ANYONE in the last 20 yrs, make change happen. I wonder why Sean Cummings quit his job at Brunswick and at the same time walked away from our industry and his BCA presidency? Just talked with Ivan a couple hrs ago, Sean left because of in house minon politics.

jalapus logan · Mar 25, 2011

Island Drive said:
Good job, here is my thoughts copy/paste from another post where Jerry F. and Jay H. are going at it lightly'

Jerry Forsyth said:

Jay,

"With all due respect?" Where the hell did that come from? Every time we see each other we slap one another upside the head, man!

In normal times I would agree with your thesis. But businesses are not in a mood at the moment to deficit spend, and that is what the BCA would have to do to hold the Open again at this moment. Plus, they really need to analyze whether a tournament is the best vehicle to use to promote the game. They may have more viable options.

Deficit spending is what just clobbered the democrats last Tuesday. I do not see the BCA taking that route in the current environment. All this said, of course, with all due respect.

Its easy to say because of this and that its not a good time to spend, but a smart business person is very aware that most everything NOW can be purchased for 30-40 cents on the dollar and people are business people are very willing to NEGOTIATE.
When DuCoff left the BCA, the coffers were flush, rightfully so, the mfg sold off their assets on the player side and focused on the mfg side.
BCA trade show got relocated, only in time to find out the wheel wasn't broken and they better go back to where that had success, Vegas. That cost em. They next went with a large marketing firm out of GA, that was another expense that didn't pan out. Next, downsize, move to Denver, cut costs, oh yeah, continue to not support the play side unless your trying to sell another tip tool, right.
Ironically....NOW its even MORE important to support the game which in turn supports the industry.
The BCA got to where it was by supporting the play side and business at the same time, why are they trying to reinvent the wheel? The play side along with many smart business decisions is what got the BCA into a successful position. The BCA had about 1.2 million in the bank when it moved to CO, anyone know how much money is left in the bank?
What I find also out of place, Simonis is very successful, Ivan Lee is the BCA President, do homeowners really care about 860, 760 or 1240am?
Ivan, take the Bull by the horns if you REALLY want to accomplish more than ANYONE in the last 20 yrs, make change happen. I wonder why Sean Cummings quit his job at Brunswick and at the same time walked away from our industry and his BCA presidency? Just talked with Ivan a couple hrs ago, Sean left because of in house minon politics.

Click to expand...

Here's a simple equation that the BCA should consider:

year 1 promotional spending of $0 + year 2 promotional spending of $0 + year 3 promotional spending of $0 = out of business/death of pool

Lesson? Any entriprise CAN NOT AFFORD TO NOT ADVERTISE even in recessionary times.

Nostroke · Mar 25, 2011

JAM said:
This is the same BCA that sent Germany's Thorsten Hohmann to the recent WPA-sanctioned tournament overseas. Who is behind the curtain at the BCA making these kinds of decisions?

Comment deleted pending clarification of what 'sent' means.

justnum · Mar 25, 2011

What should the BCA be doing? It seems like they have lost touch with people in the industry if articles are slandering them for bad investments.

Could be the BCA guys are just like us on the forum? They see money in sponsorship and cross-promoting and took a chance and failed.

So what is next, try it again?

As much as I like billiards as a recreational hobby I have been paying attention to the sport as an industry for some time and with a curious interest. What I have been seeing and hearing is that everyone is just doing what they do best. Players play and win, organize promote and try to payout prize money, sponsors try to support players, room owners try to make the rent, fans try to support players but there is no financial grace to just make pool self sustaining. The IPT tried but the capital investment did not yield the returns.

The BCA tried to up the demand by getting the "exposure." The next choice would be to do something different or try the exposure thing differently.

When I goto the bar and see the players and leagues and the pro events and tournaments, pool is alive and struggling. It could be as simple as saying the demand for billiards just isn't there.

The BCA tried the big investment and blundered, maybe they should get back to smaller investments and try something less extravagant, few things will be extravagant as the golden era of the IPT. But that doesn't mean they won't succeed. It felt like a lot of people are trying to recreate something from the past when the big pool movies came out, they are trying to recreate a scene or copy another sports concept and make it work for them.

I wouldn't call the BCA a failure so much as an organization used to better times. Its a cycle sometimes business is great other times not so much.

(A few years ago I saw people sponsoring events for stacking cups. Trends come and go.)

Island Drive · Mar 25, 2011

justnum said:
What should the BCA be doing? It seems like they have lost touch with people in the industry if articles are slandering them for bad investments.

Could be the BCA guys are just like us on the forum? They see money in sponsorship and cross-promoting and took a chance and failed.

So what is next, try it again?

As much as I like billiards as a recreational hobby I have been paying attention to the sport as an industry for some time and with a curious interest. What I have been seeing and hearing is that everyone is just doing what they do best. Players play and win, organize promote and try to payout prize money, sponsors try to support players, room owners try to make the rent, fans try to support players but there is no financial grace to just make pool self sustaining. The IPT tried but the capital investment did not yield the returns.

The BCA tried to up the demand by getting the "exposure." The next choice would be to do something different or try the exposure thing differently.

When I goto the bar and see the players and leagues and the pro events and tournaments, pool is alive and struggling. It could be as simple as saying the demand for billiards just isn't there.

The BCA tried the big investment and blundered, maybe they should get back to smaller investments and try something less extravagant, few things will be extravagant as the golden era of the IPT. But that doesn't mean they won't succeed. It felt like a lot of people are trying to recreate something from the past when the big pool movies came out, they are trying to recreate a scene or copy another sports concept and make it work for them.

I wouldn't call the BCA a failure so much as an organization used to better times. Its a cycle sometimes business is great other times not so much.

(A few years ago I saw people sponsoring events for stacking cups. Trends come and go.)

Some good points, tho comparing cup/stacking with pool....if pool were just a trend, then why has it been around for centuries and why does it have more history than almost every sport............
Industry must change to survive, if any business stuck with their original business plan when they first opened and didn't budge, they fail. Government is a good example, great ideas, implementation somewhat, but to tweak, adjust, modify and cut costs..........HUH.

We are where were at now because of unwillingness too change.

Also, in the last I'd say 20 years or less allot of the BCA's board members were their for their personal business agenda even tho they were representing mfg and distributors, plus they got free room and $500 travel perdiem. With the BCA getting away and losing touch with the play side, the purchaser side, is not smart doesn't make any sense. We have the right game to survive, it will never go away, or ever be just a trend, it alone builds too much character and person to be left behind also, women are starting to compete on an equal playing field with men, only when the sport becomes organized and highly functional and worthwhile to pursue will the women in masses equal the skill of the guys, that's all that's holding them back. Can't think of many/any parents that raised their daughter to be pool players, maybe Jasmin and the Bloomberg/Van Boening family, that's pretty much it.

FranCrimi · Mar 25, 2011

[QUOTE=JAM;2928418]Bravo to Billiards Digest and Mike Panozzo for writing an excellent article about the state of pool in North America and how the BCA is handling it.

I think Mike Panozzo *gets it.* I have not been a fan of much of the billiard fourth estate due to their prejudicial reporting over the years, but, by George, Billiards Digest is telling it like it is, with no fear of any repercussions from the almighty Oz -- I mean BCA. :grin-square:......

The UPA was removed from representing American male pros when they failed. Well, now it's time to say bye-bye to the BCA, IMHO. This is the same BCA that sent Germany's Thorsten Hohmann to the recent WPA-sanctioned tournament overseas. Who is behind the curtain at the BCA making these kinds of decisions?

American pool needs a transparent industry organization, not this kind of activity where decisions are made in secret.

Bravo to Billiards Digest for speaking the truth. I am renewing my subscription to BD today.

..........End Quote

I don't have a dog in this fight, nor do I have any allegiance to any side but here are a few points to consider:

Jen: Have you by any chance contacted Ivan Lee or Jerry Forsyth to find out how Thorsten was invited to the 8 Ball World Championship? I think it's only fair that before being critical, you find out the facts. Maybe you already did. I don't know.

Regarding Panozzo's "article:" It's an editorial and it doesn't have to be factual. It's his opinion about something that went down that he's obviously not happy about. Mike is notorious for using his publication for venting his personal feelings about something, and that doesn't necessarily mean that he speaks the truth. He is giving his opinion.

I was present at the trade show and witnessed Mike's "pitch" for this program. I wasn't impressed. I don't know for sure, but it appears that the BCA abandoned a sinking ship and decided to cut their losses. I do know that a pool room owner in my area told me that his Coke distributor is giving him a better deal than what was offered to him through this special Coke deal that Mike was pitching.

I don't know the facts, but if there's anything I've learned in my 30 years in the business, it's that it is dangerous and unfair to believe something from hearing (or reading) just one side of a story --- that is unless it fits your agenda to do so. Then it makes all the sense in the world.

justnum · Mar 25, 2011

Island Drive said:
Some good points, tho comparing cup/stacking with pool....if pool were just a trend, then why has it been around for centuries and why does it have more history than almost every sport............
Industry must change to survive, if any business stuck with their original business plan when they first opened and didn't budge, they fail. Government is a good example, great ideas, implementation somewhat, but to tweak, adjust, modify and cut costs..........HUH.

We are where were at now because of unwillingness too change.

Also, in the last I'd say 20 years or less allot of the BCA's board members were their for their personal business agenda even tho they were representing mfg and distributors, plus they got free room and $500 travel perdiem. With the BCA getting away and losing touch with the play side, the purchaser side, is not smart doesn't make any sense. We have the right game to survive, it will never go away, or ever be just a trend, it alone builds too much character and person to be left behind also, women are starting to compete on an equal playing field with men, only when the sport becomes organized and highly functional and worthwhile to pursue will the women in masses equal the skill of the guys, that's all that's holding them back. Can't think of many/any parents that raised their daughter to be pool players, maybe Jasmin and the Bloomberg/Van Boening family, that's pretty much it.

The cup stacking relation was just to make my article have something unique, it was a gimmick. No where did I compare billiards to cup stacking or call billiards a trend.

Each time I play in my straight pool league (as if that wasn't bad enough) I am also of the youngest player in the league. From my perspective it just seems like nothing is attracted people into the pool hall for more than a quick night out shooting.

I became interested in shooting pool because I just liked it and had the opportunity to develop my interests in it. But competing in the league feels like volunteering at a retirement home sometimes. So what I am saying is that getting people to try pool is easy, getting them to stick around is tough, recruitment is a common problem in many fields.

JAM · Mar 25, 2011

FranCrimi said:
I don't have a dog in this fight, nor do I have any allegiance to any side but here are a few points to consider:

Jen: Have you by any chance contacted Ivan Lee or Jerry Forsyth to find out how Thorsten was invited to the 8 Ball World Championship? I think it's only fair that before being critical, you find out the facts. Maybe you already did. I don't know.

Regarding Panozzo's "article:" It's an editorial and it doesn't have to be factual. It's his opinion about something that went down that he's obviously not happy about. Mike is notorious for using his publication for venting his personal feelings about something, and that doesn't necessarily mean that he speaks the truth. He is giving his opinion.

I was present at the trade show and witnessed Mike's "pitch" for this program. I wasn't impressed. I don't know for sure, but it appears that the BCA abandoned a sinking ship and decided to cut their losses. I do know that a pool room owner in my area told me that his Coke distributor is giving him a better deal than what was offered to him through this special Coke deal that Mike was pitching.

I don't know the facts, but if there's anything I've learned in my 30 years in the business, it's that it is dangerous and unfair to believe something from hearing (or reading) just one side of a story --- that is unless it fits your agenda to do so. Then it makes all the sense in the world.

Fran, I do understand what you are saying. I truly do, but the BCA is not transparent, and neither is the WPA. They make decisions about pool matters, and usually folks find out about these decisions well after the fact.

I don't really know Mike Panozzo. I saw him one time at an IPT King of the Hill event in Orlando. I walked up to him to share a few complimentary words about his magazine, and he was stuck-up and didn't even give me a thank-you in response. Needless to say, I didn't get a very good impression. I was excited to get to speak to him, and I was given the cold shoulder. :sorry:

In fact, I have been disappointed in the coverage of pool by the print media in years gone by. When I read that BD credited Ewa Mataya for the success of "The Color of Money" movie and the boom it took across America, that was, as you so rightly say, Fran, an opinion, one which I definitely did not agree with. :grin-square:

I realize these are opinions written by BD, but so, too, are the threads and posts on AzBilliards Discussion Forum. The BCA had no right to send a German player to the overseas tournament, and that's my opinion. Those spots should be reserved for North Americans, those the BCA is supposedly representing. I smell pool politics in that move allowing a German to take a BCA spot. Why couldn't Thorsten get into that event through the European entity that represents the Germans with the WPA?

When I read that the Simonis guy was nominated as the Pool Person of the Decade, or whatever such award he was given, well, that speaks volumes to me. The BCA should be giving a little attention to the professional players, the existing lot of which in America is dwindling. Does the BCA feel any responsibility to help professional pool, or is it all about helping the Simonis guy be recognized by their award?

There's a caste system in pool now, with the professional players at the lowest rung of the ladder.

I know that you, Fran, were working with the WPA at one time, so you do have the advantage of seeing things a little differently than most. For that, I am thankful to read your words. If the WPA and BCA were a little more transparent instead of acting like a monarchy, maybe things would improve.

I do value your intelligent contribution to this forum, Fran. When you write, I read and digest. What a shame the WPA and BCA can't do the same.

JAM · Mar 25, 2011

cardiac kid said:
Jen,

If Smorg is number one in our hearts, you must be number two!!! Never seem to be able to give you "green". For the fools who don't know or respect you and your knowledge of the game of pool, it is posts like this that make you AZ's resident muse.

Lyn

Your contributions and opinions to this forum are very valuable, Lyn. You do know what's happening, more than most.

I always enjoy reading your posts. Thanks for the kind words!

gunzby · Mar 25, 2011

I believe they wrote something about how the WPA is fairly useless as well. I think it was either this month, or last month.

I would have to agree with both articles. I remember having a deep conversation with myself once about what I would do if I won the lottery. One of the things that fluttered about my head along with a larger home, nicer cars, all the cues I could play with and a private harem locked away in my man cave was producing a pro tournament.

I thought of the where, when and how much added money I would fork over I also thought of sanctioning. The more I thought of it the more I kept telling myself why the hell would I want to give them money when they're not playing? If I took it out of the entry fees, or added money again why in the hell would I want to give them money for not playing? I would absolutely refuse to lose a dime from myself, entry fees or sponsors to them when it could go to the players who would actually make it a great event if I were ever actually lucky enough to be able to run one and do it right.

danquixote · Mar 25, 2011

Industry trends.

I'm no Guru, have no experience at all in the industry side of cue sports, and have never attempted to profit from the sport. ( disclaimer here....I have played for a beer or two) What does that make me.....the average player interested in helping but with no experience or means to do so. What I can contribute is observations. Right now the money being spent on entertainment ....ie...watching but not participating to a noticible degree, seems to be going to those that produce/promote PPV events. The chosen method for announcing these PPV events is our AZ Forum. Billiards has a rather limited viewing appeal to the average non player, while all of us bangers ,pros, hustlers, and wanna be's can't seem to get enough of it.
I think the industrys immediate future is inexorably tied to these entrepeneurs. When we as a demographic suscribe/purchase enough of these events, it will become evident to major sponsors that there is indeed money to be made. Hope that time arrives sooner than later...Dan

GARY LLOYD · Mar 25, 2011

cardiac kid said:
Jen,

If Smorg is number one in our hearts, you must be number two!!! Never seem to be able to give you "green". For the fools who don't know or respect you and your knowledge of the game of pool, it is posts like this that make you AZ's resident muse.

Lyn

Lyn,

I slid JAM a little green because you were unable to. Not to mention I really liked the post. Hope all is well with you. Good luck on the tournament trail sir. Nice finish in Philly.

sfleinen · Mar 25, 2011

GARY LLOYD said:
Lyn,

I slid JAM a little green because you were unable to. Not to mention I really liked the post. Hope all is well with you. Good luck on the tournament trail sir. Nice finish in Philly.

And so did I! Nice job, Jen! And nice sentiments relayed by cardiac kid as well -- I echo them!

-Sean

CocoboloCowboy · Mar 25, 2011

I think the BCA forgot "B" stands for Billiards....JMHO.

justnum · Mar 25, 2011

CocoboloCowboy said:
I think the BCA forgot "B" stands for Billiards....JMHO.

No it stands for bailout the billiards business.
b + b +b = B

Zbotiman · Mar 25, 2011

Such a thing, as absolute truth???

JAM said:
The BCA should be giving a little attention to the professional players, the existing lot of which in America is dwindling. Does the BCA feel any responsibility to help professional pool? They make decisions about pool matters, and usually folks find out about these decisions well after the fact.
There's a caste system in pool now, with the professional players at the lowest rung of the ladder.

JAM,
Please forgive me, if this reconstruction of a few of your expressed views, here, in any way misrepresents your thoughtful intentions.

.......does your friend Keith, ever remember a time when the BCA "CARED" about promoting, the real Pool playing that was going on in America? IMHO, it has been a "paper tiger" organization from it's inception. The thing the BCA has always cared about is maintaining the illusion the sport of pool needs them to remain in existence! I further guess, they only care about maintaining that "ILLUSION" because it generates revenue for them!

My bet would be, with money in the bank, their only disappointment is, that money associated with Pool is how it got there!!!
If they could just find a way to eliminate pool, from the formula, and maintain the $$$$$ flow, all would be well in their world.

The one piece of light, in all of this darkness, could be, that the "pool playing world" will wake-up and re-organize itself from within. With an organization founded on an amateur, grass roots level of support, for the professionals level of play. With-out that interest and appreciation, at the grass roots, amateur level, for the professionals, and the way they play this sport, what hope can there "EVER" be, for Professional Pool?

Let's face it, that organization (the BCA) won't be achieving anything like that for this sport, never has, never will, different set of priorities!$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$:shocked:

BCA -- On the Road to Nowhere

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