Turning point of getting to next level of play

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Do any of you remember the point you went from a mid-pack player to finishing in the money? Or any significant jump? And what did it take to get there? Did you finally hang up one game winner more than you can take? Had some guy taunt you that you sucked and could not beat him in 100 years? Something became clear in your head that was confusing or you were just too stubborn to change? Take on a new instructor?

I'm almost 50 and still finding little ways to improve but having a hell of a time getting to a solid A level. I can cash in a lot of local events, and people don't take me as a push-over, but seems I am losing to players clearly worse than me even with all the experience I have.
 
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measureman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I played a lot of pool with Neptune Joe Frady a world class player from New Jersey.
Learned a lot and moved my game up a couple levels.
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I went to have a new tip put on. I met the guy at his house. He is a top regional player. Old timer. He said I could hit some balls on his table while I waited. I threw some balls out and started shooting. I kicked at a ball and missed badly. He saw that and asked if I had a system for kicking. When I said I didn’t, he put the Zero-X kicking video on and went to work.

I was blown away at how effective that system was. Afterwards I bought that video and studied it. Today I kick great. That was an AHA moment for me. I figured more aspects of pool could similarly be systematically be mastered. And that’s when I began immersing myself in every instructional video available. I was obsessed with systems.

None of them clicked quite as well as the Zero-X one did. A nice side effect is that I was playing and practicing a lot more. I did commit to doing more of the Zero-X stroke and ball pocketing drills. That made a huge difference. It’s only then that I started playing tournaments and gambling with friends. That took me the next leap forward as I gained personal feedback and experience with what was working and not working. I developed a trust in my newfound fundamentals and realize now my weaknesses are mostly with rushing through shots when I think I’m catching a gear but then fail to think ahead or even bother aiming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Do any of you remember the point you went from a mid-pack player to finishing in the money? Or any significant jump? And what did it take to get there? Did you finally hang up one game winner more than you can take? Had some guy taunt you that you sucked and could not beat him in 100 years? Something became clear in your head that was confusing or you were just too stubborn to change? Take on a new instructor?

I'm almost 50 and still finding little ways to improve but having a hell of a time getting to a solid A level. I can cash in a lot of local events, and people don't take me as a push-over, but seems I am losing to players clearly worse than me even with all the experience I have.

I've posted here about improving my game
it's certainly happened both gradually
and in spurts

but I wonder (for you, especially)
is it about getting to the "next level"
or getting to the "A" level-
know what I mean?

of course you yourself have experienced level jumps
so, do you remember what that was like?
is going from "C" to "B," or whatever, that different from "B" to "A" (or whatever)- ?
now I can't say for sure- for sure, I'm no "A" player ^_^

but if we're discussing individual examples
I guess I'd ask you then-
are you in fact losing to lesser players?
and if so, why?
diagnose the problem, diagnose the solution- ?
 

Geosnooker

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great question.

Decades ago I went to a casual demonstration by World Snooker champion, Ray Reardon. I learned the same thing that We hear from his student, Ronnie OSullivan, when he is asked some questions.

‘It depends. Who am I playing?’

You are playing an opponent. The goal is to win the game. What are his strengths, weaknesses etc and how do you adapt your game to this? What level of risk do I take in shots? Is he a good safety player? Long potter? Does he get frustrated easily? I need to take more risk and try running a table if playing Efren Reyes than I do if against a decent player in our league.


Knowing your opponent was the missing element in my game. Unlike in the movies the enemy can shoot straight, has a brain and can adapt.
 

DelawareDogs

The Double Deuce…
Silver Member
I learned that I get a lot farther in tournaments when I play every shot as if my longevity in the tournament was at stake. In reality, it is. Every shot counts, every positional leave.

Watching the pros play, I notice more and more how they play their beginning matches the same way they play in the finals. Consistency, minimizing complacency and risky shots that carry bad percentages.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I started working in a pool hall. Lots of watching time and free practice time.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Years back I was hitting balls with another local guy that who would just torture me constantly. I was struggling, and complaining about my inconsistency. He simply commented that my problem was most likely due to all the tricks shots I was playing.

Of course being confused by the comment, I asked what he meant. He explained that every time I made the cue ball do something it didn't want to do naturally. I was playing a "trick shot". Being a pool player, and subsequently cynical, I figured he was being a dick. However he went on to explain his approach of running through most shots and opting to play additional rails, rather than playing excessive draw.

He was/is an exceptional player, so I took it to heart. Once I altered my thinking and adjusted my patterning play accordingly. My success jumped significantly.
 

measureman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great question.

Decades ago I went to a casual demonstration by World Snooker champion, Ray Reardon. I learned the same thing that We hear from his student, Ronnie OSullivan, when he is asked some questions.

‘It depends. Who am I playing?’

You are playing an opponent. The goal is to win the game. What are his strengths, weaknesses etc and how do you adapt your game to this? What level of risk do I take in shots? Is he a good safety player? Long potter? Does he get frustrated easily? I need to take more risk and try running a table if playing Efren Reyes than I do if against a decent player in our league.


Knowing your opponent was the missing element in my game. Unlike in the movies the enemy can shoot straight, has a brain and can adapt.

Bingo!
Whenever I play someone for the fist time I clock their strengths and weaknesses.
Couple Saturdays ago I played a guy one pocket for the first time.
He played well and did not seem to have any glaring weaknesses.
But he gave himself up by saying he got impatient with all the safety play in one pocket.
Gotcha!
I won 4 out of 5 games
I just played more safes then usual.
 

Tin Man

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
stupid opponents

Bingo!
Whenever I play someone for the fist time I clock their strengths and weaknesses.
Couple Saturdays ago I played a guy one pocket for the first time.
He played well and did not seem to have any glaring weaknesses.
But he gave himself up by saying he got impatient with all the safety play in one pocket.
Gotcha!
I won 4 out of 5 games
I just played more safes then usual.

This is hilarious.

Reminds me of the first live poker tournament I won. I was playing at a table and these two young guys thought they were internet wizards and were whispering back and forth about their strategy. I was playing fairly tight and one of them said to the other "That guy is a total nit, he's way too passive", but they said it loud enough I could make it out. A couple of hands later I opened the pot and one of them three bet me. I had a good four bet bluff hand and opted to reraise knowing they had me pegged as a tight player and it had a good chance of going through. He looked at me and finally folded. I remember thinking "I may not play as aggressive as you, but at least I'm not stupid enough to tell you how I'm adjusting to your style". Unbelievable...
 

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Do any of you remember the point you went from a mid-pack player to finishing in the money? Or any significant jump? And what did it take to get there? Did you finally hang up one game winner more than you can take? Had some guy taunt you that you sucked and could not beat him in 100 years? Something became clear in your head that was confusing or you were just too stubborn to change? Take on a new instructor?

I'm almost 50 and still finding little ways to improve but having a hell of a time getting to a solid A level. I can cash in a lot of local events, and people don't take me as a push-over, but seems I am losing to players clearly worse than me even with all the experience I have.

You have to break every bad habit you had.
Replace every weakness with a strength.
Be able to win with your B game.
Be able to spot good players and win.
Test yourself because if you aren't on the improve, your game will go backwards.
Practice until you don't miss.
Set goals and achieve them.
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Do any of you remember the point you went from a mid-pack player to finishing in the money? Or any significant jump? And what did it take to get there? Did you finally hang up one game winner more than you can take? Had some guy taunt you that you sucked and could not beat him in 100 years? Something became clear in your head that was confusing or you were just too stubborn to change? Take on a new instructor?

I'm almost 50 and still finding little ways to improve but having a hell of a time getting to a solid A level. I can cash in a lot of local events, and people don't take me as a push-over, but seems I am losing to players clearly worse than me even with all the experience I have

These are 2 different things. Do you want to be a solid "A" or stop losing to worst players?
Possibly you think if you were a solid A then you wouldn't lose to worse players. Not necessarily the case.

Right now you're an average B player. I have seen literally hundreds of players at that level over the years.
While they may be doing different things wrong they all seem to have one thing in common. It's almost always in the realm of thought process and decision making.
It's as simple as that.
You basically have to change your evaluation process. In exactly what way remains to be seen. You'll probably need some help with that.

I can tell you this---without change in that area, any significant improvement is very unlikely to be realized.
The good news is that any good B player can very quickly become a strong A if they make the needed changes in that area.
 

measureman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I started working in a pool hall. Lots of watching time and free practice time.

Back in the early 60's there was a little 3 nine foot table room in Asbury Park N.J. that I as a 14 year old discovered.
I never could figure out how it made enough money to stay open.
One day the house man said go up the back stairs and see K.O.(that was the owners name).
So up there was a gambling room with cards and dice.
There was an outside stair case up from the back parking lot.
I was given a food order to go across the street and get and I had to promise not to tell what I saw.
These were some bad dudes and I swore not to tell.
After a couple times of getting food and coffee(these guys tipped well) I got free pool time and started to figure out the game.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
9' table at home.

Not really a revelation but the progression was all a result of hitting a lot of balls and experiment with stance and alignment.

First learning to pocket balls.

Then you stop being surprised at where the cue ball goes after you pocket the ball to knowing where it will go to being able to make it go where you want with different spin.

Then learn to kick which for me was more difficult than running balls because it isn't as fun as running balls and harder to force myself to practice.

Having said all that I'm still not a very good player.
 

td873

C is for Cookie
Silver Member
I'm almost 50 and still finding little ways to improve but having a hell of a time getting to a solid A level. I can cash in a lot of local events, and people don't take me as a push-over, but seems I am losing to players clearly worse than me even with all the experience I have.

Basically everyone here is saying the same kind of thing -> consider changing your mental approach to the game. That is, if you have good fundamentals, then you're likely suffering a mental "problem" to winning.

One easy things to adjust: stop playing to just make balls and start playing to win games. For example, when you are struggling with a shot, don't take a flyer or try for low percentage shape. Approach every shot like it will win/lose the game for you. Remember the sage advice -> you will LOSE more games missing easy shots than you will WIN shooting flashy shots.

I suppose this also boils down to the question: do you really enjoy playing or really enjoy winning? a lot of folks our age (bracketing 50) don't have a pool hall peer group any longer, so pool is entertainment. So, winning is nice, but playing pool is better.

Everybody's journey is different. Reflect. Know thyself. Play pool.

-td
 

kollegedave

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I believe I made a jump after doing the following things:

1) I changed the way I practice from primarily playing games (straight pool high run attempts and 9 ball ghost) to primarily shooting shots I missed in competitive play, know I will face in competitive play, know I struggle with, or simply long shots. I still make high run attempts, but it is not primarily what I do.

2) I have rigorously attempted to create a pre-shot routine that produces a grip on the cue where my thumb faces directly down while addressing the cue ball. This was a tip from lfigueroa, and I count it has a great insight. Many great players have grips on the butt of the cue where the thumb faces directly down.

3) I have worked hard to slow and control my back stroke

4) Before the pandemic, I tried to stay in cheap action with a better player

The cumulative effect of these four things, I believe, has led to significant improvement for me. I am no champion, but mostly because of lucky draws, and these changes in my practice, I have cashed in the DCC one pocket twice.

kollegedave
 

Pete

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So my game had a few jumps.

1. Koop taught me an Aiming method that clicked for me (Front Hand English Guy).

2. Gen's Perfect Aim.

3. Let Brett's DVD and Book (mostly Stance).

Tor Lowery Mental Game.
 

Patrick53212

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Definitely my issue

Basically everyone here is saying the same kind of thing -> consider changing your mental approach to the game. That is, if you have good fundamentals, then you're likely suffering a mental "problem" to winning.

One easy things to adjust: stop playing to just make balls and start playing to win games. For example, when you are struggling with a shot, don't take a flyer or try for low percentage shape. Approach every shot like it will win/lose the game for you. Remember the sage advice -> you will LOSE more games missing easy shots than you will WIN shooting flashy shots.

I suppose this also boils down to the question: do you really enjoy playing or really enjoy winning? a lot of folks our age (bracketing 50) don't have a pool hall peer group any longer, so pool is entertainment. So, winning is nice, but playing pool is better.

Everybody's journey is different. Reflect. Know thyself. Play pool.

-td

I played in a tournament this past Saturday and my mental game was definitely what was hurting me. I was off because I was "playing scared" and not with confidence. I still managed to make it past the halfway mark in the field but lost matches because I kept second-guessing myself and trying to "baby" shots. It is sick because I had moments where I shined but plenty of moments where I mentally fell apart. I did not have a single break and run-out despite having some breaks where I should have run out. In practice the day before, I started out my practice session breaking and running out 4 of the first 6 breaks. I have the same table and cue ball that was being used in the tournament...albeit my equipment is cleaner at home. The issue was more so my mental game than knowledge and skill set that impacted my play. Getting to the next level for me and for a lot of people is overcoming the mental part and playing with more confidence. A big part of that will be from getting back to playing opponents. The lack of tournaments due to COVID is definitely impacting the number of events in which I get to play and keep my mental game sharp.
 

Kdogster

Registered
I've been using a video projector system on my home table since beginning of 2020 roughly. icatraining.com

Since using the system, I played a couple of bar table 8-ball tournaments before Covid came on the scene and could tell my play was sharper. I was competing well in A division and against guys with Fargo rates in upper 500s to low 600s.

Since Covid, I've been pretty diligent about practicing at home using the video projector system. I recommend the structured aiming-, target practice-, and pattern modules. Because it's fun to practice and easy, I am playing a lot. This has tuned up my stroke and mechanics. I'm now working through Dr. Dave's SAWS drills. After that, I plan to go through the 99 critical shots again and practice 14.1 to improve my cluster skills.

I'm looking forward to getting back to tournaments when I feel it's safe. I'd love to compete strongly in A and possibly move up to AA level.
 
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