Scott erwin is a hack! Dont use him for cue work!

OldOrvis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Your first pictures made me a little skeptical to be honest. The slightly different angle and the red arrow cutting off part of the top of the cue seemed like someone trying to enhance their position a little. These pictures do a much better job supporting your position.

A couple possibilities, one is that the black ring was a soft plastic that didn't tolerate heat. I'm sure you know that properly pressed linen gets pretty hot and has a lot of pressure put on it. The other possibility is that the linen was substantially thinner than the original leather after pressing and they deliberately took down the black ring to better match the diameter of the linen. Of course it is also possible that somebody did a quick butcher job to get a job out fast that was already very late.

It seems like valid complaints on this cue so the comments below don't apply so much to this cue as to all cues sent off for work, particularly old cues. I remember one that was refinished and horror of horrors, a point or two got sharpied in! That thread heated up to warp speed! Then we took a good look at the "before" pictures at the same high magnification. The "old master" had sharpied in a wiped point to begin with. The old refinisher put back what he found.

The large screens and magnification of digital imaging give many of us the same view as looking through a microscope. Playing with a camera and lenses I had years ago I took a high resolution image of a roughly three-sixteenths inch smooth chrome circular dome, the primer in a bullet. When I blew it up to the size of a dinner plate it was full of dents, dings, pits, and scratches! Looking at one of the most valuable cues in the world, the silver ginacue, at these same magnifications reveals a host of flaws. That cue has had several hundred thousand offered for it and is rumored to have had half a million offered for it quite some time ago.

Perfect to even a fine craftsman's naked eye isn't the same as perfect under high magnification. The funny thing is that the fine craftsmanship and tiny flaws of handmade cues is the reason for buying custom cues. If I had an order for 250 cues at $10,000 apiece I could turn out 250 of the most perfect cues ever built. While short run, these would be production cues with machines and modern quality control devices and techniques applied to the creation of these cues. 25 or 50 years from now a person would be lucky to get their purchase price back, not considering the shrinking value of the dollar.

When we look at perfection in an inlay we are often looking at an illusion. One piece fit perfectly to the other is tricky, particularly when the two pieces will shrink differently with time. If one of those pieces happens to have been put in as a liquid the fit is much better! Many other tricks of the trade to make less than perfect appear perfect but the simple truth is that part of being a master is knowing how to solve problems large and small so that the customer never sees them.

There was a time many considered me a master at auto body repair, even the courts accepted me as an expert in the field. Out of hundreds of jobs I turned out one that was perfect, repairing a dent not much bigger than the end of my thumb. A tough job, I did it three times and painted it twice. A new truck with 84 miles on it, nothing less than perfect was acceptable. I didn't point out that the factory component on the other side of the truck wasn't perfect. Many here don't notice imperfections until after they have work done and get a cue back. Some of the imperfections may be the fault of the repairmen or refinisher, some of the imperfections were there all the time and were not in the scope of work to be performed.

I hope if nothing else threads like this encourage everyone to take good quality pictures of cues before sending them off for work.

Hu


He showed before pics lol did you not see them..? and the cue is jacked and it wasnt like that clearly in the pics shown in the before....also how is the cue maker so oblivious to let a cue go out without seeing that ....its crap work plain and simple no camera trick lol
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
the pictures

He showed before pics lol did you not see them..? and the cue is jacked and it wasnt like that clearly in the pics shown in the before....also how is the cue maker so oblivious to let a cue go out without seeing that ....its crap work plain and simple no camera trick lol



I saw them. The one "before" image was cropped at the bottom or the bottom of the cue was out of frame. The top in the area there were problems later was hidden by the arrow.

Similar images have been used in the past to manipulate and inflame the forum so a little skepticism was justified. I am happy to have had it laid to rest in this case. Go back and really look at that first "before" image and tell me that it shows the area in question in a manner we can tell anything about it. If you think it does you are the fish! LOL LOL LOL

Hu
 

Bigb'scues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not picking on you, and no offense. We've had discussions before. Aren't you a cue repair guy yourself? You've posted pictures of your work that look great. Why did you send your cue to someone else? Again, no hate, just curious.

All the best,
WW



I don’t have a spray booth or means of refinishing a Cue (My small shop is the second bedroom of my apartment haha) I could have done the wrap but the Cue needed a refinish so best to do that all at once.....in theory lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Bigb'scues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Your first pictures made me a little skeptical to be honest. The slightly different angle and the red arrow cutting off part of the top of the cue seemed like someone trying to enhance their position a little. These pictures do a much better job supporting your position.



A couple possibilities, one is that the black ring was a soft plastic that didn't tolerate heat. I'm sure you know that properly pressed linen gets pretty hot and has a lot of pressure put on it. The other possibility is that the linen was substantially thinner than the original leather after pressing and they deliberately took down the black ring to better match the diameter of the linen. Of course it is also possible that somebody did a quick butcher job to get a job out fast that was already very late.



It seems like valid complaints on this cue so the comments below don't apply so much to this cue as to all cues sent off for work, particularly old cues. I remember one that was refinished and horror of horrors, a point or two got sharpied in! That thread heated up to warp speed! Then we took a good look at the "before" pictures at the same high magnification. The "old master" had sharpied in a wiped point to begin with. The old refinisher put back what he found.



The large screens and magnification of digital imaging give many of us the same view as looking through a microscope. Playing with a camera and lenses I had years ago I took a high resolution image of a roughly three-sixteenths inch smooth chrome circular dome, the primer in a bullet. When I blew it up to the size of a dinner plate it was full of dents, dings, pits, and scratches! Looking at one of the most valuable cues in the world, the silver ginacue, at these same magnifications reveals a host of flaws. That cue has had several hundred thousand offered for it and is rumored to have had half a million offered for it quite some time ago.



Perfect to even a fine craftsman's naked eye isn't the same as perfect under high magnification. The funny thing is that the fine craftsmanship and tiny flaws of handmade cues is the reason for buying custom cues. If I had an order for 250 cues at $10,000 apiece I could turn out 250 of the most perfect cues ever built. While short run, these would be production cues with machines and modern quality control devices and techniques applied to the creation of these cues. 25 or 50 years from now a person would be lucky to get their purchase price back, not considering the shrinking value of the dollar.



When we look at perfection in an inlay we are often looking at an illusion. One piece fit perfectly to the other is tricky, particularly when the two pieces will shrink differently with time. If one of those pieces happens to have been put in as a liquid the fit is much better! Many other tricks of the trade to make less than perfect appear perfect but the simple truth is that part of being a master is knowing how to solve problems large and small so that the customer never sees them.



There was a time many considered me a master at auto body repair, even the courts accepted me as an expert in the field. Out of hundreds of jobs I turned out one that was perfect, repairing a dent not much bigger than the end of my thumb. A tough job, I did it three times and painted it twice. A new truck with 84 miles on it, nothing less than perfect was acceptable. I didn't point out that the factory component on the other side of the truck wasn't perfect. Many here don't notice imperfections until after they have work done and get a cue back. Some of the imperfections may be the fault of the repairmen or refinisher, some of the imperfections were there all the time and were not in the scope of work to be performed.



I hope if nothing else threads like this encourage everyone to take good quality pictures of cues before sending them off for work.



Hu



The wrap groove was cut to a perfect 90 and the depth was also perfect for the linen prior to shipping I took off the leather myself to check it before sending (obviously if the linen didn’t fit I would have had leather put back on, but it did fit) the man completely hacked the cue sir. No other scenario or excuse is present here....just pure good ole fashion butchery.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

Sealegs50

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There's only a few I would trust with refinishing a valuble cue that wasn't their own. Pete Tascarella, Dennis Searing, Keith Josey, Joe Gold, Bob Manzino, John Showman, Barry Szamboti, and Randy Mobley and a few of those dont really work on others cues.

If neither of them will do it, I probably would not have any work done.

I've had nightmares by very well know respected makers... There may be a few others that do great work on a consistent basis but the makers I mentioned are the best there are in my experience.

Pete Tascarella regularly accepts repair work and doesn't dissapoint. Try giving him a call.

Michael Webb refinished and rewrapped my Schick cue 6 years ago. Except for some blueing of the linen, it looks the same today as it did when it left his shop. https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=327534
 

PRED

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pure curiosity here but have you contacted him and if so what was the response??

A full refund would not come close to making the client whole. The repairs are extensive and who could send it back to the guy? Lose lose unless a competent cue maker can be contracted to do the repairs and Erwin pay the bill.
 

poolguy4u

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
.



I always tell people he is the Meucci only guy.

All other cues should be sent somewhere else.


I would blame whoever recommended him to you.

That doesn't look like a Meucci.




.
 

poolhustler

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I saw them. The one "before" image was cropped at the bottom or the bottom of the cue was out of frame. The top in the area there were problems later was hidden by the arrow.

Similar images have been used in the past to manipulate and inflame the forum so a little skepticism was justified. I am happy to have had it laid to rest in this case. Go back and really look at that first "before" image and tell me that it shows the area in question in a manner we can tell anything about it. If you think it does you are the fish! LOL LOL LOL

Hu

you must be blind if you can't see the bevel on the ring above the wrap !!!
 

WildWing

Super Gun Mod
Silver Member
I don’t have a spray booth or means of refinishing a Cue (My small shop is the second bedroom of my apartment haha) I could have done the wrap but the Cue needed a refinish so best to do that all at once.....in theory lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah, gotcha... Finishing is a separate animal. As is, that would take a lot of fine line tape to build up the space at the beginning of the wrap, then careful tapering. Or I would guess a new handle. Either would be a project. It's a beautiful cue, hope it gets righted.

Edit - It also depends on replacing the bottom phenolic ring, obviously beveled wrongly. Project is growing.

All the best,
WW
 
Last edited:

ideologist

I don't never exaggerate
Silver Member
Ah, gotcha... Finishing is a separate animal. As is, that would take a lot of fine line tape to build up the space at the beginning of the wrap, then careful tapering. Or I would guess a new handle. Either would be a project. It's a beautiful cue, hope it gets righted.

Edit - It also depends on replacing the bottom phenolic ring, obviously beveled wrongly. Project is growing.

All the best,
WW

None of these issues existed prior to sending the cue off.
 

Kickin' Chicken

Kick Shot Aficionado
Silver Member
I've had a couple cues done by Scott Erwin and they came out spectacular but I'm also aware of a few complaints in addition to yours where quality was bad.

So, it's not that he's incapable, just for whatever reason, things can go sideways.

best,
brian kc
 

gypsy_soul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Your first pictures made me a little skeptical to be honest. The slightly different angle and the red arrow cutting off part of the top of the cue seemed like someone trying to enhance their position a little. These pictures do a much better job supporting your position.

A couple possibilities, one is that the black ring was a soft plastic that didn't tolerate heat. I'm sure you know that properly pressed linen gets pretty hot and has a lot of pressure put on it. The other possibility is that the linen was substantially thinner than the original leather after pressing and they deliberately took down the black ring to better match the diameter of the linen. Of course it is also possible that somebody did a quick butcher job to get a job out fast that was already very late.

It seems like valid complaints on this cue so the comments below don't apply so much to this cue as to all cues sent off for work, particularly old cues. I remember one that was refinished and horror of horrors, a point or two got sharpied in! That thread heated up to warp speed! Then we took a good look at the "before" pictures at the same high magnification. The "old master" had sharpied in a wiped point to begin with. The old refinisher put back what he found.

The large screens and magnification of digital imaging give many of us the same view as looking through a microscope. Playing with a camera and lenses I had years ago I took a high resolution image of a roughly three-sixteenths inch smooth chrome circular dome, the primer in a bullet. When I blew it up to the size of a dinner plate it was full of dents, dings, pits, and scratches! Looking at one of the most valuable cues in the world, the silver ginacue, at these same magnifications reveals a host of flaws. That cue has had several hundred thousand offered for it and is rumored to have had half a million offered for it quite some time ago.

Perfect to even a fine craftsman's naked eye isn't the same as perfect under high magnification. The funny thing is that the fine craftsmanship and tiny flaws of handmade cues is the reason for buying custom cues. If I had an order for 250 cues at $10,000 apiece I could turn out 250 of the most perfect cues ever built. While short run, these would be production cues with machines and modern quality control devices and techniques applied to the creation of these cues. 25 or 50 years from now a person would be lucky to get their purchase price back, not considering the shrinking value of the dollar.

When we look at perfection in an inlay we are often looking at an illusion. One piece fit perfectly to the other is tricky, particularly when the two pieces will shrink differently with time. If one of those pieces happens to have been put in as a liquid the fit is much better! Many other tricks of the trade to make less than perfect appear perfect but the simple truth is that part of being a master is knowing how to solve problems large and small so that the customer never sees them.

There was a time many considered me a master at auto body repair, even the courts accepted me as an expert in the field. Out of hundreds of jobs I turned out one that was perfect, repairing a dent not much bigger than the end of my thumb. A tough job, I did it three times and painted it twice. A new truck with 84 miles on it, nothing less than perfect was acceptable. I didn't point out that the factory component on the other side of the truck wasn't perfect. Many here don't notice imperfections until after they have work done and get a cue back. Some of the imperfections may be the fault of the repairmen or refinisher, some of the imperfections were there all the time and were not in the scope of work to be performed.

I hope if nothing else threads like this encourage everyone to take good quality pictures of cues before sending them off for work.

Hu

Dang I may be an Astronaut 👩*🚀 that's a possibility! It's summer time please get outside and get fresh air guys . He will let us know what happens!
 

WildWing

Super Gun Mod
Silver Member
None of these issues existed prior to sending the cue off.

Yep, I can see that. I don't think I'll ever need to send a cue off for a refinish for the rest of my life. But it reminds me of the few times when I had Tim Scruggs refinish a cue, and it came out perfect. I have a feeling many miss those days.

All the best,
WW
 

Dave-Kat

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Looks like you got the 'happy hour' special there:angry:

Good luck with getting the cue restored...

-Kat,
 

GoldCrown

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
The list of satisfied customers of Proficient is long and distinguished. I would not be afraid to send one of my fancier cues to them. They did a great job on my relatively plain kingwood cue.

I just saw a refinished high end cue from Proficient and it looks outstanding. I sent three cues to PB and would send 3 more.
 
Last edited:

Runner

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yep, I can see that. I don't think I'll ever need to send a cue off for a refinish for the rest of my life. But it reminds me of the few times when I had Tim Scruggs refinish a cue, and it came out perfect. I have a feeling many miss those days.

All the best,
WW

Yeah, I had Tim refinish my Scruggs player and make an extra shaft,
came out perfect, shaft was exactly like the others.. miss that guy,
what a great cuemaker, and a great guy.
 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
there are good businessmen and poor businessmen.

a good one if he messes it up will fix his mistakes or call you can figure out way to compensate you for what he did.

the other kind just sends back the garbage and hopes for the best.
 
Top