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06-25-2019, 05:10 PM

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Originally Posted by mr5994 View Post
Why would you need 10s of thousands of replacement teachers? If it was made clear to them that they lose their job if they don't want to show up for work......I guarantee you only a handful would go on strike(and they would tend to be the type you wouldn't want teaching your kids anyway.)
Air traffic controllers anybody?


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06-25-2019, 05:15 PM

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Originally Posted by Alan View Post
Are you telling us that your boss won't let you refuse to work while demanding more money and benefits from him after you agreed to the current salary and benefits? He must be a capitalist and a conservative. I hope he's at least installed a safe space area for you.
You know it's funny how some folks (typically those that work a govt job) can't fathom the thought that a private employer actually expects their employees to provide value to the business that is greater than the salary/benefits that is being paid to them.

A local guy that I know just recently took 2 weeks of sick time from his govt job after stepping on a sewing needle at home.......the thing is that he has a desk job and could have been back at work on the 2nd day.

My wife's uncle (also a govt employee) spent the last 2 years of his career collecting a disability check. It was not clear to me what his disability was......sure didn't stop him from traveling the country in his motor home.

It's guys like these^....that are dumbfounded when I mention going into work on a weekend/evening.....or when I mention that I haven't taKen a sick day in 5 years.

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06-25-2019, 07:03 PM

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Originally Posted by Sev View Post
LOL.
Man you are slipping.
I was being facetious.

The problem with the educational system is the federal government. Much like everything else. Once the government got in between the students and teachers the quality of education began to decline.

The formation of the department of education was the single worst thing to happen to education in the USA.

It is not the people teaching that are generally the problem.
It is the methodology and what they are being taught to and required to teach.

The bar has been lowered in an attempt to achieve equal outcomes for even least able student.

NYS and many other state had regents and school level in their curriculum. All above average students moved up to the advanced level. While the less capable students stayed at was considered the average level.

It was decided that it was unfair to the average students.

Now.

To make the problem worse. The government has gotten in between parents and their children as well.
This is nothing new. It has been going on for decades.
However it has resulted in a decline of traditional family values as well as many other things that parents used to instill into their children.

Because of this. You have students that have no real interest or desire to learn.
They have been promised the world and are ill prepared for the reality of it.
At the same time you have a curriculum that is not designed to challenge the student or develop their cognitive ability.

What it boils down to is the neither parents nor the schools systems are anywhere near as demanding of the students as those that came before the baby boomers.

Of course the Asians stand in stark contrast to other ethnic groups in educational performance.
Cultural differences in the home are a key factor.
I agree that No Child Left Behind was a joke but, frankly, other than that, I never noticed much government interference at the county level. They partially funded lunch programs
and special ed programs.


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06-25-2019, 07:05 PM

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Originally Posted by mr5994 View Post
..I guarantee you only a handful would go on strike(and they would tend to be the type you wouldn't want teaching your kids anyway.)
And I guarantee you, you would be dead wrong. In absolutely everything you just said.


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06-26-2019, 02:00 AM

We were talking about your views on education and I chose not to accept them. They are your opinions, not facts. If you want to see that refusal as me saying you are a liar then so be it. That's a dishonest view of our discussion. I expected better from you, but perhaps you aren't capable of that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tom haney View Post
Haney:

"MY POSTS are all over education sucks threads. I'M NOT GOING TO DIG THEM UP. ACCEPT what I'm saying or NOT."

Originally Posted by Alan
"Hmmm. You are giving me a choice . . . I'll pick NOT. I love being given a choice. We should try that in our school."

???? I love the word salads some of you pull.
  
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06-26-2019, 04:54 AM

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Originally Posted by tom haney View Post
I agree that No Child Left Behind was a joke but, frankly, other than that, I never noticed much government interference at the county level. They partially funded lunch programs
and special ed programs.
The federal government determines what books will be used in the class.

Remember the whoha over the history books printed down in Texas a few years back.


Keep your head down and admire the shot.


COVFEFE!!



“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”---Martin Luther King, Jr.

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06-26-2019, 07:50 AM

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Originally Posted by Sev View Post
The federal government determines what books will be used in the class.

Remember the whoha over the history books printed down in Texas a few years back.
Not in our state, buddy. County by county. Sorry.
Maybe we should secede from the rest of the country if all you Right wingers are correct about how terrible it is every place else and then all I have to is keep pasting " Not in West Virginia!"


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06-26-2019, 08:53 AM

I will lay out my opinion.

The 52% that doesn't know about their union or non
union options fits within a larger group that doesn't
know much.

It's not surprising that those with union think prevail
in Teachers Unions. After all, their pattern of behavior
is withholding their services after saying they wanted
work. What the majority want is a paycheck for very
little.

Ancient History. I had relatively few poor teachers.
English in Jr Hi and Advanced Mathematics in my
Senior year. Much better than what prevails in the
teacher pool and the instruction books that passes
for texts.

They are designed for indoctrination and to minimize
work of the teachers. Like a math class that breaks a
problem into 27 steps. No doubt the teacher can follow
the written instructions like a computer would.

Richard Feynman, Nobel Prize winner, and youngest
physicist on the Manhattan project, found this out years
ago. He evaluated mathematics books for California.
His views were thrown into the trash.

I have read most of Feynman's books. Technical and
of general interest. His daughter brought out the deal
with her fathers analysis of mathematics text books.

When teachers decided to unionize, they decided to
withhold their craft in exchange for less work and
significantly fewer students per class.

I have had outstanding teachers in mathematics in every
class excepting my senor year. Outstanding in sciences
and especially in physics. Outstanding in physical
education and outstanding in one English class.

The others were typically average. Acceptable but nothing
out of the ordinary.

Parties wishing to teach should reconsider the union aspect
of their jobs and drop membership. Focus on their craft
and those 5% to 25% who are incompetent will be squeezed
out of the trade. Incompetents hold back everything. Recognition,
pay, self satisfaction and well being. Being a professional is
due a better class of instructors.

There is an especially important need to squeeze these parties
out in inner city situations. Where choice is not available.




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06-26-2019, 08:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom haney View Post
I never noticed much government interference at the county level.
Never noticed is far from the same as saying it does not exist or even could be prevalent.

.


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06-26-2019, 09:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sev View Post
The federal government determines what books will be used in the class.
You mean like the one my daughter had that said the statue of liberty was made of bronze....and when my daughter spoke up about it in class the teacher corrected her and supported the text?

Those text books?

Have you seen the text books they are using these days? Full of political propaganda.

Even my daughter's college text books are full of it.

It's blatant.

.


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tom haney
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06-26-2019, 11:08 AM

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Originally Posted by Chopdoc View Post
Never noticed is far from the same as saying it does not exist or even could be prevalent.

.
What I did notice was the fiasco Bush created with No Child Left Behind. Other than that, I didn't notice ANY interference. Hope that clarifies my statement for you.


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06-26-2019, 11:15 AM

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Originally Posted by Chopdoc View Post
You mean like the one my daughter had that said the statue of liberty was made of bronze....and when my daughter spoke up about it in class the teacher corrected her and supported the text?

Those text books?

Have you seen the text books they are using these days? Full of political propaganda.

Even my daughter's college text books are full of it.

It's blatant.

.
Wow! That teacher sucked! I bet most teachers suck!
That text sucked! I bet most texts suck.
I've seen the textbooks they're using in schools in our area. Haven't noticed what you're saying.
Switch colleges.
My wife and I have had some terrible doctors lately. But I bet all doctors don't suck. I try not to make sweeping generalizations. It doesn't seem intelligent.


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06-27-2019, 03:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopdoc View Post
You mean like the one my daughter had that said the statue of liberty was made of
bronze....and when my daughter spoke up about it in class the teacher corrected her
and supported the text?

Those text books?

Have you seen the text books they are using these days? Full of political
propaganda.

Even my daughter's college text books are full of it.

It's blatant.


.
I have seen them. But about 10 years back. I suspect they are worse today.

There was a guy at the local pool hall. Glass City Billiards, now defunct.

About 10 years back.
Mike's job was selling HS textbooks and it seems he was changing occupations
He had several hundred in his truck and was in the process of discarding
them. He asked me if I was interested. Yes. I would be interested in Mathematics,
Science, and English. So I found myself in possession of about 50 books or so.

When I got down to reading them, I discovered they were much different than
those I had in HS. This is where I discovered dumbing down. First in mathematics
in consistently breaking down problems into the smallest elements. Typically about
27 steps. Too damn confusing for a student but nice enough for an incompetent
teacher to follow the teacher's guide and present the information as if they followed it.

Every mathematics text was this way. Same with physics. It's as if they were going to
have illiterates read the stuff to the class and hope some could catch on. English
texts were dumb in differing ways. Generally, those books were off topic.

All the books were designed so the class leader could look like they were doing
something independent of their own study. It remains a travesty.

I was educated about what the unions have done to education and I lugged all those
books to the dumpster. If a family member is in grade or high school ask to see their
books. Spend an hour and see if that specific book would result in being enthusiastic
about the subject matter. If not do something.

If you know someone in HS find them a book well organized on the subject. One that
discusses the aspects that so interested you when you were a student.

My brother's daughter was taking Trig in HS. I sent her Trigonometric Delights by Eli
Maor. It is the best trig book I have ever seen. His other books are fine but not at
the outstanding level of this one. The bonus of the story is that my brother also read
that book and had the warmest words about it.

Find something of value. Supplement or replace what masquerades as a public
school textbook.

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06-27-2019, 03:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slide Rule View Post
I have seen them. But about 10 years back. I suspect they are worse today.

There was a guy at the local pool hall. Glass City Billiards, now defunct.

About 10 years back.
Mike's job was selling HS textbooks and it seems he was changing occupations
He had several hundred in his truck and was in the process of discarding
them. He asked me if I was interested. Yes. I would be interested in Mathematics,
Science, and English. So I found myself in possession of about 50 books or so.

When I got down to reading them, I discovered they were much different than
those I had in HS. This is where I discovered dumbing down. First in mathematics
in consistently breaking down problems into the smallest elements. Typically about
27 steps. Too damn confusing for a student but nice enough for an incompetent
teacher to follow the teacher's guide and present the information as if they followed it.

Every mathematics text was this way. Same with physics. It's as if they were going to
have illiterates read the stuff to the class and hope some could catch on. English
texts were dumb in differing ways. Generally, those books were off topic.

All the books were designed so the class leader could look like they were doing
something independent of their own study. It remains a travesty.

I was educated about what the unions have done to education and I lugged all those
books to the dumpster. If a family member is in grade or high school ask to see their
books. Spend an hour and see if that specific book would result in being enthusiastic
about the subject matter. If not do something.

If you know someone in HS find them a book well organized on the subject. One that
discusses the aspects that so interested you when you were a student.

My brother's daughter was taking Trig in HS. I sent her Trigonometric Delights by Eli
Maor. It is the best trig book I have ever seen. His other books are fine but not at
the outstanding level of this one. The bonus of the story is that my brother also read
that book and had the warmest words about it.

Find something of value. Supplement or replace what masquerades as a public
school textbook.
What else did you buy out of the back of that guy's truck?


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06-27-2019, 04:40 AM

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Originally Posted by tom haney View Post
What else did you buy out of the back of that guy's truck?

I didn't buy anything from Mike. He planned to discard the texts and asked if
I was at all interested. I was.

It was only when I read those texts that I was made aware of Marxists in
the text writing cycle. These books are trash. Do someone else a favor
and take the texts you use and give them to a conservative and ask them
if they were excited about all the new concepts they learned.

Then send them to the dumpster.

We disagree on many things. I suspect Education, as it exists today, is one
of them. Let me say. There are things of value and bullsh!t.

In any event, providing an outstanding text to a student is a good thing.
  
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