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06-21-2019, 07:25 AM

Mohrt

The fact you (and most people) aren’t able to successfully employ the system at first speaks volumes about its lack of objectivity.
  
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06-21-2019, 07:38 AM

Monty & All,

Six or seven years ago when I first heard what Stan Shuffett's CTE was supposed to be... I was intrigued & a bit excited. Why not? Who would not want a way to aim pool shots that is totally objective in its nature?

I was new to AZB when I had heard that assertion(claim). So... I was a newbie & had NOT yet formed ANY determination regarding Mr. Shuffett's CTE. So... Mr. Shuffett offered to give me Free Lessons in CTE at his facility in Kentucky. I could not accept as I had not long before ruptured the L5 disc in my back & I was NOT doing any traveling.

So... I asked if I should buy the then current DVD or wait for the upcoming new DVD that was supposed to clear some things up, etc. I was advised to wait for the New DVD.

While waiting, I went onto YouTube to watch Mr. Shuffett's videos on CTE. I came across His Video on 'Perception' where he had 5 like shots with equal distances between the CBs & Obs lined up across the width of the table parallel to the side rails. He indicated that ALL 5 shot could be made using the same defined 15 visual & the same defined 1/2 tip offset thinning pivot.

My intelligence & science education immediately told me, "NO WAY!". I immediately knew right then & there that Mr. Shuffett's "whatever' was in no way what it was said to be... & that there would be nothing forthcoming to show it to be such.

However, Mr. Shuffett seems very sincere & speaks rather authoritatively. So... I went the table & set up the first 3 shots & shot them. That physical reality solidified what my intelligence & science education had previously told me. Different results can NOT be had by using the same process with the same defined parameters. The results were & are that the OB exists at the same angle & hence the different shots can NOT be made by the same process with the same defined parameters. There is no "phenomena" where the balls 'present' themselves differently depending on where they are on the table.

That & another like video has relatively recently been taken down. I do not know why.

So... that is my story.

I have decided that given the climate, I will send you my example in PM. I wish I could post it here for everyone, but that's nota good idea at this time.

Best Wishes.
  
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06-21-2019, 07:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeiberLvr View Post
Mohrt

The fact you (and most people) arenít able to successfully employ the system at first speaks volumes about its lack of objectivity.
Sometimes what people think is "objective" is merely their own subjective bias making it feel like what they are doing is objective. Like juggling. I learned to juggle through practice until my brain was able to make it happen automatically. I feel like I don't estimate or use personal judgment/opinion when I do this, but that doesn't make it objective.


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Brian Crist
  
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06-21-2019, 08:05 AM

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Originally Posted by BeiberLvr View Post
Mohrt

The fact you (and most people) arenít able to successfully employ the system at first speaks volumes about its lack of objectivity.
Did you copy & past that from out of the past somewhere?
  
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06-21-2019, 08:25 AM

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Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
Cookie...I just cannot see why these anti-CTE people don't just leave it alone and stop with the controversy.
I could not care one flip whether or not Brian Crist uses his Poolology, or Patrick Johnson uses his "Lizard Head" movement, or Lou Figueroa complains about everything in the pool rooms he attends. They can aim, shoot, make deals or bets anyway they please.
I am not interested in "saving them from themselves" like most of them seem to try and do to the CTE people.
Yet, it goes on and on and on and on, ad nauseam. All disguised under the charades of "inquiring minds want to know" or "visitors here need to know the truth".
I swear, my man, I just don't get it.
I, & I think most if not all, do not care at all what you are anyone else uses. Have at it & be happy.

What is cared about is The Truth & what amounts to false 'advertising' by proclaiming something to be what it is not.

AZB & other sites should be places where individuals can come to get Truthful Information or at least information that is not known to be scientifically incorrect.

If ANYONE knows the Truthful Facts & wants to try ANYTHNG, then they have at least made a Truthfully Informed Decision to do so...

& have not been enticed to do so by inaccurate declarations.

Have at & be Happy.

A Simple Truthful Statement by Mr. Shuffett can make what you don't like go away. All that need be said is. CTE by Stan Shuffett does require subjective interpretations, analysis, & input just as all other methods do. He can then say that given all of the time & work that he has put in, that in his opinion, His CTE is one of, if not the, Best such Methods.

Who can disagree with that?
  
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06-21-2019, 08:37 AM

The issue isnít CTE. It is certain users and supporters that act out when anything is asked, questioned about how you implement the steps CTE users describe to make shots.

Like, if you understand convergence of the eyes, then how can one eye be used to see one line?

Then there are statements made......like everyone uses CTE subconsciously or it is totally objective.......which your post proves it isnít.

Or challenging non CTE users to prove something, but when CTE users are challenged, like put your steps on paper, become all whiny.

Certain users and supporters throw temper tantrums, make personal attacks, use naming calling..........all things that bullies do.

Your post for example............naysayers.........name calling.

And since you cant explain how it works, how do you know it works they way you think.......there is the subconscious.

They only reason you made this post was to imply that non CTE users are the cause of the controversy regarding CTE, but in reality, it is the bad behavior of a few CTE users and supporters, which includes you.
  
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06-21-2019, 08:39 AM

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Originally Posted by SmokinJoe46 View Post
Throughout history, closed mindedness has negatively impacted science.
The right side of the brain needs to be exercised. I for one use too much logic in my approach...
I was introduced to the game by my Dad when I was 13.

I have 2 years of H.S. & 3 semesters of College Physics Education along with the normal Geometry. I also took Trig. & Calculus that one rather loses in not used.

I am very glad that I started playing the game 2 years before my 1st. physics class.

I am NOT one that plays by science.

That is NOT the point. I also do NOT have a closed mind as you seem to have wanted to imply.

Those who know or who are involved with science "know" that one must always keep an open mind.

Regarding the topic at hand, I DID.

Having an open mind does not change Falsehoods into The Truth.

Best Wishes.

PS Please see my post about how I got involved in this whole thing... which I should probably add to.
  
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06-21-2019, 08:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
Here’s the CTE controversy in a nutshell. Stan Shuffett declared many years ago that CTE resolves THE center cue ball for nearly all shots.
The so-called scientists say that the only center cue ball that can be resolved in pool is for a 100% dead-on zero angle shot to a perfectly marked center pocket. All other shots are essentially cuts that must have a degree of feel for arriving at center cue ball.
The phenomenon of CTE changes the existing aiming paradigm in that nearly all shots can have a defined, objective CCB just like a dead-on straight-in shot. If Stan is correct in his declaration, it changes the game of pool forever in a way that perception will rule over existing science. But today’s "Aiming Police" should have no fear because there will be a day in the future when science will unravel the perceptions of CTE with a huge stamp of approval.
Low,

That does not 'sound' like YOU.

That is NOT what the controversy has been about & it has not been just science types who have spoken up.

It does not take knowing any science for one to know when they hear something that just ain't right.

All it takes is some old fashioned Common Sense.

Confirmation Bias can be a formidable adversary to overcome.

Best Wishes.

PS Have you played any Checkers lately?

Last edited by ENGLISH!; 06-25-2019 at 05:52 AM.
  
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06-21-2019, 08:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENGLISH! View Post

While waiting, I went onto YouTube to watch Mr. Shuffett's videos on CTE. I came across His Video on 'Perception' where he had 5 like shots with equal distances between the CBs & Obs lined up across the width of the table parallel to the side rails. He indicated that ALL 5 shot could be made using the same defined 15 visual & the same defined 1/2 tip offset thinning pivot.

My intelligence & science education immediately told me, "NO WAY!". I immediately knew right then & there that Mr. Shuffett's "whatever' was in no way what it was said to be... & that there would be nothing forthcoming to show it to be such.
I'm glad you admit that this is the extent of your knowledge with CTE. Very telling as i've said you have no clue concerning CTE
  
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06-21-2019, 08:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
Cookie...I just cannot see why these anti-CTE people don't just leave it alone and stop with the controversy.
I could not care one flip whether or not Brian Crist uses his Poolology, or Patrick Johnson uses his "Lizard Head" movement, or Lou Figueroa complains about everything in the pool rooms he attends. They can aim, shoot, make deals or bets anyway they please.
I am not interested in "saving them from themselves" like most of them seem to try and do to the CTE people.
Yet, it goes on and on and on and on, ad nauseam. All disguised under the charades of "inquiring minds want to know" or "visitors here need to know the truth".
I swear, my man, I just don't get it.
I explained to you and some others already in plain English why it goes on and on.

It takes two to tango and you guys are always ready and available to sprint out on the dance floor.

You are like "stick" dogs. You're exhausted as hell but when your master throws the stick off you go. Just can't help yourselves.

That's why.

But of course you still don't get it.

You never did even back in grade school.

JC


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It's what you know that just ain't so

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06-21-2019, 08:52 AM

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Originally Posted by BigBoof View Post
Thanks mohrt. This post is very thoughtful. My own experience with CTE was similar to yours except I had your blog to help answer my questions.

I know I am not using pure Pro One but the ball goes in center pocket more often than before and that is all I care about.

Shots like this go in with confidence. Maybe that shot is easy with any method but it feels like magic to me.

I owe you many thanks.
Can you down size that pic? It is making reading the thread a bit difficult.
  
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06-21-2019, 08:57 AM

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Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
What I find controversial is the terminology, the standard talking points that Hal came up with and Stan simply held on to. I understand why though....If you don't truly understand something, you just stick to repeating how someone else described it.

I don't have a problem with its true lack of objectivity, or the exact workings of the results. I don't care about advertising gimmicks, false advertising, or whatever the "anti-cte" side calls it. It's the whole, "2 ◊ 1 playing surface", and "connects to right angles", that makes me shake my head. The perceptions can be achieved anywhere you can set two balls up and look at them. Stan even says he doesn't have to see the rails/cushions or pockets in order to use the system, which means the balls are the only elements needed to achieve the "perceptions".

I can use it and pocket balls. Objectively, however, strictly in accordance with Stan's instructions, I can't make it work for all shots. Maybe it's because there are specific bridge distances that must be used here and there, or not exactly a half tip pivot here and there. I don't know. But I have always been curious, and curiosity leads to experiments, which leads to questions, which leads to getting caught up in 20yr aiming war that I really don't give a damn about.

Stan is a good guy, a good instructor. Some people use cte and probably play great, though it seems most of these players were already great before. But that doesn't mean it can't improve a non-great player's game. If it works for you then that's awesome. If it doesn't, and you've put in some table time trying to figure it out, move on, unless you wanna invest in a private lesson. It seems that those who've taken a personal lesson from Stan benefit much more than those of us who've spent hours and hours watching YouTube lessons. Like I've said before....maybe there's something that in the past could only be taught in person, and the truth series and upcoming book is designed to make it easier to learn than it has been.
Hi, Brian.

I think you should know that science can not be circumvented. What can possibly make something that is that "S" word turn into that "O" word?

That is the whole crux of the controversy & the things that you noted that "get you" are the supposed explanations.

ALL Best Wishes for Y'all.
  
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06-21-2019, 09:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
Sometimes what people think is "objective" is merely their own subjective bias making it feel like what they are doing is objective. Like juggling. I learned to juggle through practice until my brain was able to make it happen automatically. I feel like I don't estimate or use personal judgment/opinion when I do this, but that doesn't make it objective.
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06-21-2019, 09:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie View Post
The issue isn’t CTE. It is certain users and supporters that act out when anything is asked, questioned about how you implement the steps CTE users describe to make shots.

Like, if you understand convergence of the eyes, then how can one eye be used to see one line?

Then there are statements made......like everyone uses CTE subconsciously or it is totally objective.......which your post proves it isn’t.

Or challenging non CTE users to prove something, but when CTE users are challenged, like put your steps on paper, become all whiny.

Certain users and supporters throw temper tantrums, make personal attacks, use naming calling..........all things that bullies do.

Your post for example............naysayers.........name calling.

And since you cant explain how it works, how do you know it works they way you think.......there is the subconscious.

They only reason you made this post was to imply that non CTE users are the cause of the controversy regarding CTE, but in reality, it is the bad behavior of a few CTE users and supporters, which includes you.
Tap! Tap! Tap!

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06-21-2019, 09:41 AM

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Originally Posted by ENGLISH! View Post
Hi, Brian.

I think you should know that science can not be circumvented. What can possibly make something that is that "S" word turn into that "O" word?

That is the whole crux of the controversy & the things that you noted that "get you" are the supposed explanations.

ALL Best Wishes for Y'all.
I understand. The objectiveness/subjectiveness may be what you and others deem the crux of the controversy, and I get that. But it doesn't spin my head as quickly as the goto explanation for how it works.

All too often, and certainly not exclusive to CTE, pure coincidental or unexplainable things (due to lack of knowledge or understanding) are explained as being supernatural or phenomena.

We could say that a great hitter in baseball is able to hit the ball anywhere in the field/diamond because there are 2 foul lines that define the playing area, and these two lines form a 90į angle at home plate. The lines connecting each of the 3 bases also form 90į angles. So there are 4 90į angles, and since the ball and bat are circular, they each have 360 degrees to work with, which happens to be the sum of all the infield angles.


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