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08-15-2019, 09:25 AM

I've insufficient subject knowledge to assess what the value of the "strangling and hanging injuries" information in this article is and I haven't even had time to read it in full anyway cos I'm travelling (on my way to a vessel in distress near Iran) but it might have some interest...….

https://epmonthly.com/article/clinic...ging-injuries/


Mike
  
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08-15-2019, 09:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rybord View Post
Just read this on Fox News.

An autopsy on the body of Jeffrey Epstein revealed the convicted sex offender had several broken bones in his neck, including the hyoid bone, according to a report.

The hyoid bone, which is near the Adam’s apple, can be broken in a suicide by hanging – especially in older people – but is more common in strangulation murders, The Washington Post reported.
I'll wait to see the actual report.

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08-15-2019, 09:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by memikey View Post
I've insufficient subject knowledge to assess what the value of the "strangling and hanging injuries" information in this article is and I haven't even had time to read it in full anyway cos I'm travelling (on my way to a vessel in distress near Iran) but it might have some interest...….

https://epmonthly.com/article/clinic...ging-injuries/
Very cool.

I just started Emergency Medicine boards.

Quote:
Cervical spine fractures are well-documented in judicial hangings but are thought to be exceedingly rare or non-existent in non-judicial hangings. However, one retrospective case review of near-hangings over a 10-year period at LA County and University of Southern California Medical Center found a cervical spine fracture incidence of nearly 5%9.
That's a typo. It's 5%.

Quote:
Fractures of bony and cartilaginous structures in the neck are common, reported in both near-hanging and strangulation victims.
Just when you thought doctors don't have a sense of humor and that medical articles are "dry", we see this:

Quote:
Overhanging these recommendations is the understanding that “There is not enough experience to present an evidence-based approach for the use of the CTA.”

Overhanging? LOL! Yup. They printed that.
.


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08-15-2019, 09:39 AM

But NYC is run by democrats.
This must be republicans trying to cover up a conspiracy to hide all the child trafficking through nyc. Eliminating a major player is what this about.

epstein has photos with trump
  
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08-15-2019, 10:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by justnum View Post
But NYC is run by democrats.
This must be republicans trying to cover up a conspiracy to hide all the child trafficking through nyc. Eliminating a major player is what this about.

epstein has photos with trump
You're kidding, right? NYC is run by Democrats. Do you think there is a democrat alive that would do anything to help cover anything at all for Trump? Or do you think (much more likely) that they would instead lie their a$$es off to try to make him look guilty for something they did themselves?


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Yes, I saw the official autopsy
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Yes, I saw the official autopsy - 08-15-2019, 12:01 PM

HELL NO, the only thing I know is what is being reported on the news, just 30 seconds ago, he could have died by suicide or he could have been strangled.

We will never lnow.
  
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Perfectly normal!
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Perfectly normal! - 08-15-2019, 12:08 PM

Shrieking and screaming is a mechanism suicidal people use to get the air out of their lungs rapidly while holding their legs up. This is a well known phenomenon which happens in .0000549% of all suicide deaths by hangings with bedsheets tied to top bunks.

The wide area of a bedsheet is well known to be more likely to break multiple bones than a thinner rope. When they wrap themselves in one bedsheet like a cocoon and tie to the other to hang themselves it isn't uncommon to break every bone in their bodies!


Real information is hard to come by. It isn't uncommon to break the hyoid bone in official hangings, other bones also. They drop is usually sufficient to break the neck, a rope is used with a hangman's knot. A hangman's knot is positioned to hit the person behind the ear knocking them out when they hit the end of the rope if all goes well.

Suicidal hangings are much more problematic, amateurs at work. Some drop far enough to pop their heads off which is a quick way to go if a bit messy. Others fall only far enough to not be able to rescue themselves and slowly strangle. The further the drop the more likely for the hyoid and other bones to be broken as described in epstein's case. A rope breaks more bones than something that spreads the force like a sheet also. A nice stiff garrote in the hands of a skilled user is most effective to break the hyoid bone.

A short drop or no drop and spreading the force over a wider area like a sheet minimizes the chances of breaking bones. Aside from anything else sheets don't tie well and by the time you have tied one securely around your neck and something else there just isn't much left to give a nice drop.

While epstein might have killed himself it seems very unlikely. Aside from anything else, why do it? The latest document drop didn't reveal anything that wasn't already known according to reports, just a little more detail. The man could afford the best lawyers in the country and had he been sentenced to prison it would have been in one of the federal resort hotels.

Everything points to an "assisted suicide" to put it gently. Shrieks, screams, multiple broken bones including the hyoid, all circumstantial evidence but when it is all added up pretty damning.

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08-15-2019, 12:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopdoc View Post
Very cool.

I just started Emergency Medicine boards.



That's a typo. It's 59%.
.
Is that some humor of your own? If so, just so people don't misunderstand it as meant to be factual (or if meant to be factual and not a joke) a clarification and/or correction is in order.

It is not a typo. It is 5%, and then the 9 following it is the footnote reference number (9, in the list of references at the bottom).

I presume the original had the 9 in a superscript form, and that style that would avoid any confusion did not come through in this reproduction (but that's only a guess).

The single digit percentage occurrence rate in non-strangulation settings like this is supposed to be, is consistent with what I've seen elsewhere recently.

For verification, here is that number (except they say 'nearly 5%) from a summary of their published article:

Quote:
Results

During the 10-year study period, 63 patients were admitted after near-hanging. A total of 12 patients (19%) had 17 injuries. Cervical spine fractures occurred in nearly 5% of cases.


The point of modern propaganda isn't only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.

― Garry Kasparov

... the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either -- but right through every human heart -- and through all human hearts.

― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn

Last edited by Sofla; 08-15-2019 at 12:36 PM.
  
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08-15-2019, 01:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by desi2960 View Post
Today on a national news program, the suicide was explained.

He took his sheet tied it to the top of his bunk, tied the other end around his neck, Then he lifted his legs until he was dead.
Makes sense! Did they explain the ears?


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08-15-2019, 02:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofla View Post
Is that some humor of your own? If so, just so people don't misunderstand it as meant to be factual (or if meant to be factual and not a joke) a clarification and/or correction is in order.

It is not a typo. It is 5%, and then the 9 following it is the footnote reference number (9, in the list of references at the bottom).

I presume the original had the 9 in a superscript form, and that style that would avoid any confusion did not come through in this reproduction (but that's only a guess).

The single digit percentage occurrence rate in non-strangulation settings like this is supposed to be, is consistent with what I've seen elsewhere recently.

For verification, here is that number (except they say 'nearly 5%) from a summary of their published article:
LOL!

That's a typo on my part.

Thanks for catching it.

Yes, I knew it was the footnote and that it copied and pasted incorrectly, which I called a "typo". In my haste it sure looks nothing like what I meant, especially with my own typo. I inadvertently typed the 9, didn't mean to. Went back and fixed it.

Good catch! At least I know somebody read what I posted.


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08-15-2019, 03:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopdoc View Post
LOL!

That's a typo on my part.

Thanks for catching it.

Yes, I knew it was the footnote and that it copied and pasted incorrectly, which I called a "typo". In my haste it sure looks nothing like what I meant, especially with my own typo. I inadvertently typed the 9, didn't mean to. Went back and fixed it.

Good catch! At least I know somebody read what I posted.
It's my former copy-editing/proof-reader job habits that have stuck with me, I guess.

I think it's the first time I've seen a typo about a (kind of) typo, which is enjoyable just from the novelty.


The point of modern propaganda isn't only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.

― Garry Kasparov

... the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either -- but right through every human heart -- and through all human hearts.

― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn
  
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08-15-2019, 05:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofla View Post
It's my former copy-editing/proof-reader job habits that have stuck with me, I guess.

I think it's the first time I've seen a typo about a (kind of) typo, which is enjoyable just from the novelty.
Yes, well, the odds are low, but it certainly isn't rare.

And it certainly is far from determining the cause and manner of death.

I want to see the report.


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08-15-2019, 05:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopdoc View Post
Yes, well, the odds are low, but it certainly isn't rare.

And it certainly is far from determining the cause and manner of death.

I want to see the report.
I have a few questions you may know the answers for.

Do HIPAA privacy rights end upon the person's death? Are autopsy reports covered by HIPAA or other privacy rights? Can they be waived, without permission of the family, if they otherwise exist, as an exception for reasons of important public interest?

I remember that the Russian UN ambassador's cause of death was withheld, after he died in NYC. Of course, since he was under diplomatic immunity cover and Russia's presumed decisions on it, that might be entirely different.


The point of modern propaganda isn't only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.

― Garry Kasparov

... the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either -- but right through every human heart -- and through all human hearts.

― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn

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08-15-2019, 05:26 PM

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Originally Posted by Sofla View Post
I have a few questions you may know the answers for.

Do HIPAA privacy rights end upon the person's death? Are autopsy reports covered by HIPAA or other privacy rights? Can they be waived, without permission of the family, if they otherwise exist, as an exception for reasons of important public interest?

I remember that the Russian UN ambassador's cause of death was withheld, after he died in NYC. Of course, since he was under diplomatic immunity cover and Russia's presumed decisions on it, that might be entirely different.
Good question.

Nobody has ever asked me that.

I don't think it's a HIPAA matter.


Certainly there are laws that apply. It is not an area I can claim to know. A quick Google search makes it look like there is some gray area there.

I did find this: https://aspe.hhs.gov/report/standard...ut-decedents-0

I haven't had time to read it. I just had CTs coming in on a a patient and have to get on that. I'll get back to this.

Good question.

.


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08-15-2019, 05:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofla View Post
I have a few questions you may know the answers for.

Do HIPAA privacy rights end upon the person's death? Are autopsy reports covered by HIPAA or other privacy rights? Can they be waived, without permission of the family, if they otherwise exist, as an exception for reasons of important public interest?

I remember that the Russian UN ambassador's cause of death was withheld, after he died in NYC. Of course, since he was under diplomatic immunity cover and Russia's presumed decisions on it, that might be entirely different.
I’ve heard, and I am not any expert, that the HIPAA laws extend to 50 years after death.




In order to continue advancing their illogical arguments modern liberals have to pretend not to know things…

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