Go Back   AzBilliards.com > Main Category > Main Forum
Reload this Page Real Gambling vs Stream Money Grab
Reply
Page 2 of 4 12 34
 
Share Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old
  (#16)
MachineGunKelly
AzB Silver Member
MachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond reputeMachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond reputeMachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond reputeMachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond reputeMachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond reputeMachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond reputeMachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond reputeMachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond reputeMachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond reputeMachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond reputeMachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond repute
 
MachineGunKelly's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 81
vCash: 12750
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Join Date: Aug 2006
   
08-20-2019, 11:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by penguin View Post
Shane vs Shaw and Shaw vs Skyler both look like a "stream money grab"

There, I said it.


my post was a reply to this.
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#17)
lou the greek
AzB Silver Member
lou the greek has a reputation beyond reputelou the greek has a reputation beyond reputelou the greek has a reputation beyond reputelou the greek has a reputation beyond reputelou the greek has a reputation beyond reputelou the greek has a reputation beyond reputelou the greek has a reputation beyond reputelou the greek has a reputation beyond reputelou the greek has a reputation beyond reputelou the greek has a reputation beyond reputelou the greek has a reputation beyond repute
 
lou the greek's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 91
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jan 2009
   
08-20-2019, 12:04 PM

I think those matches are nothing but exhibitions no real money is changing hands in the case of Shane vs Shaw both are managed by the same promoter
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#18)
Black-Balled
He Rides the Skies
Black-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond repute
 
Black-Balled's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 39,225
vCash: 1200
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: This Toilet Earth
  Send a message via AIM to Black-Balled  
08-20-2019, 12:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MachineGunKelly View Post
So you think the promoter spent the money to fly in SVB, Shaw and Sky. Then paid JJ, Incardona, and CJ to do commentary for 3 days. Spent money on posters and advertising just to make money on pay per view and it not be an actual match? You think SVB and Shaw are down for "money grab streams"? I know SVB doesn't need the money and I would guess that Shaw doesn't either. Both of these guys can make money legit without being part of this hustle you speak of. How much could the promoter possibly pay them enough to do a "money grab" and the promoter still make a profit?
Judging by the urgency displayed by the participants, yes.

Who knows why people decide to throw money at pool?

We all know how long it lasts though.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#19)
MachineGunKelly
AzB Silver Member
MachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond reputeMachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond reputeMachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond reputeMachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond reputeMachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond reputeMachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond reputeMachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond reputeMachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond reputeMachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond reputeMachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond reputeMachineGunKelly has a reputation beyond repute
 
MachineGunKelly's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 81
vCash: 12750
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Join Date: Aug 2006
   
08-20-2019, 12:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-Balled View Post
Judging by the urgency displayed by the participants, yes.

Who knows why people decide to throw money at pool?

We all know how long it lasts though.

Please elaborate on this "urgency" you speak of?
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#20)
skogstokig
AzB Silver Member
skogstokig has a reputation beyond reputeskogstokig has a reputation beyond reputeskogstokig has a reputation beyond reputeskogstokig has a reputation beyond reputeskogstokig has a reputation beyond reputeskogstokig has a reputation beyond reputeskogstokig has a reputation beyond reputeskogstokig has a reputation beyond reputeskogstokig has a reputation beyond reputeskogstokig has a reputation beyond reputeskogstokig has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 720
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Yurop
   
08-20-2019, 12:21 PM

to the cynics on here everything is a hustle
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#21)
watchez
What time is it?
watchez has a reputation beyond reputewatchez has a reputation beyond reputewatchez has a reputation beyond reputewatchez has a reputation beyond reputewatchez has a reputation beyond reputewatchez has a reputation beyond reputewatchez has a reputation beyond reputewatchez has a reputation beyond reputewatchez has a reputation beyond reputewatchez has a reputation beyond reputewatchez has a reputation beyond repute
 
watchez's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 9,597
vCash: 5625
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Join Date: Jan 2005
   
08-21-2019, 02:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MachineGunKelly View Post
So you think the promoter spent the money to fly in SVB, Shaw and Sky. Then paid JJ, Incardona, and CJ to do commentary for 3 days. Spent money on posters and advertising just to make money on pay per view and it not be an actual match? You think SVB and Shaw are down for "money grab streams"? I know SVB doesn't need the money and I would guess that Shaw doesn't either. Both of these guys can make money legit without being part of this hustle you speak of. How much could the promoter possibly pay them enough to do a "money grab" and the promoter still make a profit?
Iím not going to get into specific names. But I do know that getting paid $1000 or $2000 a day or more is pretty good money in this country - no matter how rich someone is or how rich you think they are.

And Iíve heard (seen the texts and PMs) the ppv promoter offering $8k on more than one occasion to players to be on the stream. $3k a day ó- thatís only a million dollar a year salary. Yep no pool player would get up and play simply for that.


Watchez Is The Teacher ô


Those who dance are always laughed at by those who don't even hear the f'in music - George Carlin RIP
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#22)
Tin Man
AzB Silver Member

Tin Man has a reputation beyond reputeTin Man has a reputation beyond reputeTin Man has a reputation beyond reputeTin Man has a reputation beyond reputeTin Man has a reputation beyond reputeTin Man has a reputation beyond reputeTin Man has a reputation beyond reputeTin Man has a reputation beyond reputeTin Man has a reputation beyond reputeTin Man has a reputation beyond reputeTin Man has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 968
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Nov 2006
   
08-21-2019, 02:39 PM

I think it's much more likely that the players are competing for a real money difference but action is induced by contributions from PPV.

Suppose two players were very close in skill level. Why would they play each other for money? Why would someone back them and give up 2:1? They wouldn't. So the match wouldn't happen.

But now let's say the promoter says "Hey, play each other for 10K, and I can kick both parties 3K cash for making the game." Now the player can effectively put up 7K for a shot to win 13K. Those odds look much better for the player, and to any potential backers. As a result, the game happens and we get to see some of our dream matches.

I agree that it would be wrong to have purely exhibition matches advertised deceptively as money games, but it doesn't seem like that's what's happening. To me it looks like these promoters are giving the fans the dream matches we're dying to see that wouldn't otherwise occur, are helping the players earn a living, and are being compensated to justify their continued efforts. Seems like a good thing to me.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#23)
iusedtoberich
AzB Silver Member

iusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Online
Posts: 11,105
vCash: 1470
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2004
   
08-21-2019, 02:53 PM

I'd guess about half of the streams are very overestimated in how much money they are playing for.

I liked TAR's model in the end. TAR makes the game, and pays the expenses, and pays about 3K to the winner, and 1.5K to the loser. (The values can be adjusted to make financial sense for all parties involved, of course). This keeps things transparent, and also gets rid of much of the herding cats mentality. Accu-stats is doing a similar model with their "Make it happen" series.

I'd rather watch something like this, then a "gambling match" advertised as 10k per man, and really its all a lie.

At the end of the day, I don't think it makes much of a difference to these player if they are playing a paid exhibition, or a 20k per man gambling match. When was the last time a pro gambled without a backer, anyway? The players play the same speed in both cases, IMO. On the other hand, to the fan buying the stream, its a turn off if deception is suspected.

Last edited by iusedtoberich; 08-21-2019 at 03:04 PM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#24)
BeiberLvr
AzB Silver Member
BeiberLvr has a reputation beyond reputeBeiberLvr has a reputation beyond reputeBeiberLvr has a reputation beyond reputeBeiberLvr has a reputation beyond reputeBeiberLvr has a reputation beyond reputeBeiberLvr has a reputation beyond reputeBeiberLvr has a reputation beyond reputeBeiberLvr has a reputation beyond reputeBeiberLvr has a reputation beyond reputeBeiberLvr has a reputation beyond reputeBeiberLvr has a reputation beyond repute
 
BeiberLvr's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 7,821
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
   
08-21-2019, 04:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by watchez View Post
Iím not going to get into specific names. But I do know that getting paid $1000 or $2000 a day or more is pretty good money in this country - no matter how rich someone is or how rich you think they are.

And Iíve heard (seen the texts and PMs) the ppv promoter offering $8k on more than one occasion to players to be on the stream. $3k a day ó- thatís only a million dollar a year salary. Yep no pool player would get up and play simply for that.
I didn't realize they had daily streams.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#25)
Black-Balled
He Rides the Skies
Black-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond repute
 
Black-Balled's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 39,225
vCash: 1200
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: This Toilet Earth
  Send a message via AIM to Black-Balled  
08-21-2019, 05:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MachineGunKelly View Post
Please elaborate on this "urgency" you speak of?
Its all here; missed easy balls, forfeiting with nearly half the balls left?

Nochalantin around the pool table
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#26)
Black-Balled
He Rides the Skies
Black-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond reputeBlack-Balled has a reputation beyond repute
 
Black-Balled's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 39,225
vCash: 1200
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: This Toilet Earth
  Send a message via AIM to Black-Balled  
08-21-2019, 05:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeiberLvr View Post
I didn't realize they had daily streams.
It a million a year day, no?

Perhaps not the best wording, but you can't think watchz thinks there's a pool player out there that plays for 3k every day?
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#27)
sjm
Sweating the 2017 Mosconi
sjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond repute
 
sjm's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 15,621
vCash: 525
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: May 2003
Location: New York, NY
   
08-21-2019, 05:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CreeDo View Post
What does it achieve exactly to make this sort of post, with zero evidence?
Visible nonchalance in the Shaw vs Woodward match, including numerous concessions of multiple balls at the ends of racks late in the match counts as evidence in my books. I've never seen this sort of thing in a big money match before.

The original poster is right to question whether these matches are for real or for show.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#28)
ribdoner
SATISFACTION GUARANTEED
ribdoner has a reputation beyond reputeribdoner has a reputation beyond reputeribdoner has a reputation beyond reputeribdoner has a reputation beyond reputeribdoner has a reputation beyond reputeribdoner has a reputation beyond reputeribdoner has a reputation beyond reputeribdoner has a reputation beyond reputeribdoner has a reputation beyond reputeribdoner has a reputation beyond reputeribdoner has a reputation beyond repute
 
ribdoner's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 9,661
vCash: 4300
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: cordova
   
08-21-2019, 05:46 PM

who won the SHAW vs SKY match?

TIA!!


the truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off

Last edited by ribdoner; 08-21-2019 at 05:50 PM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#29)
iusedtoberich
AzB Silver Member

iusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Online
Posts: 11,105
vCash: 1470
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2004
   
08-21-2019, 05:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-Balled View Post
It a million a year day, no?

Perhaps not the best wording, but you can't think watchz thinks there's a pool player out there that plays for 3k every day?
15 or so years ago I had a nice score from a customer. It was 700, and took maybe 3 hours. The whole room watched. One idiot, and I use that term nicely, who was a regular for a year or two (but still a Z player), said to me afterwards: "Why do you even have a job? That's over $200 per hour!". He was dead serious. ha ha ha.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#30)
sjm
Sweating the 2017 Mosconi
sjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond repute
 
sjm's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 15,621
vCash: 525
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: May 2003
Location: New York, NY
   
08-21-2019, 06:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ribdoner View Post
who won the SHAW vs SKY match?

TIA!!
Shaw won it.
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 2 of 4 12 34

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.